Nonverbal Learning Disorder- On the spectrum or not?

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I've read that in the States, it's not counted as on the spectrum (in particular after the introduction of the evil "IV"... you know what I mean), but elsewhere (such as in Canada) it IS counted as on the spectrum.

Can anyone address this with facts and not guesses or personal feelings?

I do not know what is the evil "IV"

I am also very interested in the case of "NLD". In USA there is DSM-V, which makes the criteria of ASD even more strict than DSM-IV. There is no NVLD in DSM-V (it is good news, because the term is misleading - it suggests that it is a learning disorder (scholastic problem)).

I have many personal thoughts about NVLD. It is my "obsession", I suppose, that I would be diagnosed with NVLD in North America and not with ASD/PDD, but in Poland I received AS diagnosis.

Does anyone else know much about this?

This is what I know (which isn't all that much). NVLD is not a real diagnosis in the USA, because it is not in the DSM-V. However, SCD (Social Communication Disorder) is, which seems to be just another way of saying what some others are calling NVLD. It is diagnosed when someone has the social and pragmatic speech issues of someone on the spectrum, but without the repetitive behavior and restrictive interests. In the past, someone might receive a PDD-NOS diagnosis for this, but now it is not considered to be on the spectrum. The criteria to be diagnosed as on the spectrum seem to be a lot more rigid now.

And what about social communication disorder?

I think a lot of confusion about NLD is because of the difference between what Doris Johnson & Helmer Myklebust used "disorders of nonverbal learning" to mean in the 60s and what Byron P. Rourke used "syndrome of nonverbal learning disabilities" and "NLD" to mean later. (Disclaimer: while some of Rourke's ideas have been validated by science--e.g. he felt NLD was a disorder of white matter, and MRIs find white matter abnormalities in a substantial chunk of NLD people--I think Rourke is kind of like the archeologist dude in the 1800s who dug so gleefully and carelessly that he destroyed a lot of artefacts.)

Back in the 1960s when Dr. Samuel Kirk coined the term "learning disabilities" (or shortly after), he defined them as (emphasis mine):

“Children with special learning disabilities exhibit a disorder in one or more of the basic psychological processes involved in understanding or in using spoken or written language. These may be manifested in disorders of listening, thinking, talking, reading, writing, spelling, or arithmetic.:

So, learning disabilities were originally all thought to be based in language. But in 1967, Doris Johnson & Helmer Myklebust published a book about learning disabilities where they described kids who fit the learning disabilities framework but whose impairments weren't based in language. They called these disorders "disorders of nonverbal learning." They weren't a syndrome with multiple parts you had to have all of to be diagnosed with. They were just a group of learning disabilities affecting nonverbal skills. So some kids had problems with math; some had problems with rhythm and music; some got lost easily; some had visual processing problems; some had problems with handwriting and/or other motor skills; some had problems with social skills. Some had more than one, but they didn't need to have all of them.

For some reason, Byron Rourke turned a heterogenous group of disorders into one syndrome. Not only that, but he also made that syndrome into a "model"--a research framework to look at other complex conditions through. He came up with, like, 20 other syndromes the NLD model was useful for. In his 1980s book "Nonverbal Learning Disabilities: The Syndrome and the Model," he argues that autism is NLD plus global language impairment. (He was wrong.)

I'm not sure, but I think the newer focus on "subtypes" of NLD is an attempt to go back to Johnson & Myklebust's original definition. But everyone's subtypes are different. John M. Davis & Jessica Broitman argue that the core features of NLD are visual-spatial problems and executive function problems. In her thesis, Dianne Matthaei argues that NLD's name should be changed to "spatial learning disorder"--the word "spatial" including visual-spatial skills and spatial-motor skills.

But then again, I'm just someone who was diagnosed with NLD by a neuropsychologist back in the 90s. (I have severe navigational problems, mild social and math problems, and either mild or no executive functioning problems, so...)

Tera

It appears that often NVLD is used to describe something like "developmental social disorders which are probably not related to childhood autism". Issues such as problems with eye contact, facial expression, interpersonal distance, body posture, gestures (nonverbal communication impairments - dyssemia) might be thought to be some of "NVLDs". Literal interpretations are often classified as a symptom of NLD, not only ASD. Having nonverbal learning disorder does not mean that the person has to be socially inept and (or) "nerdy".

I even read that some "NLD children" can have problems with theory of mind. I think that all developmental socio-emotional disorders (like childhood autism) should be classified in one group.

Why people from mild end of autism spectrum can receive "serious" diagnosis of PDD or ASD, and those with "social NLDs" not? They are also markedly inept socially. Why they are worse? It is not fair! For me HF ASD and "social NLDs" are other types of the same conditions. They are often accompanied by cognitive (nonverbal and (or) verbal learning problems), motoric, sensory, executive functioning disorders.

I think that all "developmental socio-emotional disorders" ("DSEDs", like "social NLDs" and "autism spectrum conditions") should be classified in ONE category which has to be distinct from "scholastic disabilities" like dyslexia or dyscalculia and from speech disorders, from personality disorders, anxiety and mood disorders, from conduct disorders in ICD and DSM. "Social NLD" and other "non-autistic" DSEDs should have the same ICD code like autism spectrum disorders (it would be the counterpart of the term "pervasive developmental disorders"). DSEDs make a person "odd since childhood".

I was diagnosed with nvld when I was 9 I think I would have asd today and I feel a little invalidated because of that. I am also female and as you might know females are harder to diagnose because we present differently. I think nvld is on the spectrum or I should get re-diagnosed!

Given the similar symptom profiles and the fact ASD is so variable with researchers unable to indentify a clear cause/s...I'd say there's a very good chance NVLD is part of the spectrum as I'm yet to see any evidence that it isn't? Perhaps NVLD is just another manifestation of ASD in people who are less visual?

There is a strong association between Nonverbal Learning Disorder and "high-functioning" autism (especially within what, under the DSM-IV, was called Asperger's). I've read of an 80% correlation between the two.

Though it's not inevitable that one with NVLD has Asperger/Autism, or vice versa.