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wrongcitizen
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06 Apr 2017, 2:49 am

I find myself consistently confused by the behaviors of others, the attitudes of society, the direction of society, the way we live and suffer needlessly. I find myself torn between different moral resolutions, as well as multitudes of different religions, philosophies, and other general modes of thought. I can't seem to settle down ideologically and socially.

QUESTION: DO you find yourself in a similar situation, with a world constantly shrouded in vague interactions and confusing signals from other people?

WARNING: EVERYTHING BELOW IS JUST VENTING
I'm in the midst of studying politics, specifically the polarization of American politics. As a result of me not being able to pick a side, and attempting to stay moderate and centrist (slightly left), I am constantly met with insults, criticisms, and attacks from my other fellow Americans who are further along the spectrum in both ways. In fact, rarely do I meet someone who is similar to me in stance, looking for information, for betterment of themselves and the country, and a general desire to find, or at least aim towards, a proper moral mode of thought.

Excluding politics, I'm constantly attacked by people. I'm often involved in one sided barrages by people who I feel I barely know. Something about me is off putting, and it bothers me because I can turn seemingly logical, rational, friendly, and calm people into a mess of laughter and ridicule towards me, and I don't understand how I have this mystical ability. I wonder if I'm just naturally hate able?

And personally, I am constantly divided on how I want to approach the world. I consistently finding myself planning and strategizing my next move in the day. I have to construct fake personalities to try to blend in with a world which is full of smooth, vicious, ruthless, and cunning manipulators.

I have a massive desire to learn everything about the world. It comes in constantly. Constant questions, constant answers. It is satisfying. I learn multiple languages, I apply hundreds of mathematical equations to my own experiments, I have a massive fascination with cartography, chemistry, biology, botany, poetry, literature, and I'm constantly trying to find ways to express extreme emotions I feel by creating my own artistic expression. I have a very strong philosophical background. I'm forced to suppress these because I've been bullied for "thinking too much" as (they) call it. I often focus on one thing for years because there's just too much information everywhere else (this is my own interpretation of the "special interest" but it may not be true). I fail all my school courses because I can't force myself to be interested in such menial and basic information, and the system won't let me take the harder classes, which contain exclusively MORE work and not anymore material than the normal courses.

I feel constantly alienated, and I'm fed up with it. I don't care about this anymore, so I'm just going to say it. I'm highly sensitive, and I'm extremely reactive to criticism, which may be the main factor that drives me to such extreme lengths of expression such as this one. I feel like my main and only problem is other people (and not ASD people but only neurotypicals funnily enough), and I'm drained by the constant hammering of insults and criticisms I face seemingly unprovoked by these people.

I guess I'm done here, I had to get that narcissistic spell out, and I'm not sure who else I can really tell this to. Attack me if you desire, but if you do please make it make logical criticisms. Thanks.



Pieplup
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06 Apr 2017, 3:04 am

wrongcitizen wrote:
I find myself consistently confused by the behaviors of others, the attitudes of society, the direction of society, the way we live and suffer needlessly. I find myself torn between different moral resolutions, as well as multitudes of different religions, philosophies, and other general modes of thought. I can't seem to settle down ideologically and socially.

QUESTION: DO you find yourself in a similar situation, with a world constantly shrouded in vague interactions and confusing signals from other people?

WARNING: EVERYTHING BELOW IS JUST VENTING
I'm in the midst of studying politics, specifically the polarization of American politics. As a result of me not being able to pick a side, and attempting to stay moderate and centrist (slightly left), I am constantly met with insults, criticisms, and attacks from my other fellow Americans who are further along the spectrum in both ways. In fact, rarely do I meet someone who is similar to me in stance, looking for information, for betterment of themselves and the country, and a general desire to find, or at least aim towards, a proper moral mode of thought.

Excluding politics, I'm constantly attacked by people. I'm often involved in one sided barrages by people who I feel I barely know. Something about me is off putting, and it bothers me because I can turn seemingly logical, rational, friendly, and calm people into a mess of laughter and ridicule towards me, and I don't understand how I have this mystical ability. I wonder if I'm just naturally hate able?

And personally, I am constantly divided on how I want to approach the world. I consistently finding myself planning and strategizing my next move in the day. I have to construct fake personalities to try to blend in with a world which is full of smooth, vicious, ruthless, and cunning manipulators.

I have a massive desire to learn everything about the world. It comes in constantly. Constant questions, constant answers. It is satisfying. I learn multiple languages, I apply hundreds of mathematical equations to my own experiments, I have a massive fascination with cartography, chemistry, biology, botany, poetry, literature, and I'm constantly trying to find ways to express extreme emotions I feel by creating my own artistic expression. I have a very strong philosophical background. I'm forced to suppress these because I've been bullied for "thinking too much" as (they) call it. I often focus on one thing for years because there's just too much information everywhere else (this is my own interpretation of the "special interest" but it may not be true). I fail all my school courses because I can't force myself to be interested in such menial and basic information, and the system won't let me take the harder classes, which contain exclusively MORE work and not anymore material than the normal courses.

I feel constantly alienated, and I'm fed up with it. I don't care about this anymore, so I'm just going to say it. I'm highly sensitive, and I'm extremely reactive to criticism, which may be the main factor that drives me to such extreme lengths of expression such as this one. I feel like my main and only problem is other people (and not ASD people but only neurotypicals funnily enough), and I'm drained by the constant hammering of insults and criticisms I face seemingly unprovoked by these people.

I guess I'm done here, I had to get that narcissistic spell out, and I'm not sure who else I can really tell this to. Attack me if you desire, but if you do please make it make logical criticisms. Thanks.
I'd stop that if it causing you problems which is what it sounds like. I have little or no experience try mask. But, It is my belief that you can't make up for your social defeciences sure you can develop coping mechanisms but you can't fix it entirely.


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I am pieplup i have level 3 autism and a number of severe mental illnesses. I am rarely active on here anymore.
I run a discord for moderate-severely autistic people if anyone would like to join. You can also contact me on discord @Pieplup or by email at [email protected]


kicker
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06 Apr 2017, 11:21 am

I've had this issue and it took me a long time to learn that people don't tend to think at the same depth as I do. There are several reasons. They either can't, they don't care to, or they don't care to with you.

People in general feel before they think and feelings don't necessarily provoke thinking (outside of they know they feel sad because of x). So a lot of reactions you receive are due to people reacting rather than reconciling what is being said. Even if they appear to be having an in depth conversation many times they really aren't. A good way to mitigate being attacked is to ask questions to get an idea of the person's depth. If let's say they are talking about global warming, and they have expressed doubt in it. You could ask what their personal reason are for doubting it. When they reply follow up with another question to clarify their views. After a few questions you will get a sense of whether or not they may be open to discussing things more in depth. (Most times they are not and have no clue what they are discussing in any situation, then it's best to wish them well and move on.)

Non Autistic individuals don't have the sensory processing issues we have. They are able to filter out a lot and tend to be more interested in the forest rather than focusing on the bug on the mushroom on the log two feet from the left of the third tree. Making it easier to skim the surface of things as it were and not give much thought to anything else. If it doesn't affect their daily lives it's not important, even if it is extraordinary and mesmerizing like cell division, a pulsar, or even that bug that you haven't seen before and wondering how it got there, what it does, where it is going, etc.

The point is while difficult, infuriating, and isolating, your best bet is to find ways to express your opinions, ideas, theories, thoughts, and creativity in a manner that is comfortable for you. Creating things is one of my favorites, there is also writing a journal, blog, vlog, etc. Let people come to you rather than going to them, they will be more interested and less likely to be nasty when being critical.

Or you can continue to try to fit the square peg in the round hole, however from the sounds of it that hasn't worked so well. (I say that, because I was stubborn to the idea of just stop trying and do my thing and if someone is interested they will come to me.)



bjornflanagan
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06 Apr 2017, 11:44 am

Ideologically, I've generally accepted that all valuations are subjective but they interact with each other on an objective level. Hence we have a myriad of value systems that ebb and flow between prominence and decline. Seeing the world this way leaves me as an amoralist on a philosophical level but I still have my own valuations and morality on a subjective level which I continually refine as I experience the world. On the philosophical side I look at society as a system with interacting power patterns (ideals, valuations, morality) and I can generally predict how they will interact and which power structures will become prominent. I guess, by abstracting ideology and society I make it less confusing.

Socially on a local level, I assume that everyone is lying until I see supporting actions. It makes it less confusing (unless they don't even know they are lying to themelves). Also, I see most interactions as running through a script. I've settled down into a small pack of lone wolves for my social circle and I view external society as irrelevant to my daily life.

When it comes to espousing my position I am reactive. I will gauge the other person's value systems first and issue a logical critique before affirming anything on my end. It might be easier for me to handle ideological debates though because my special interests are in normative philosophy and because I'm an amoralist I can approach any value system with sharp skepticism. I actually like to troll the trolls and waste their energy on me when I hold no actual value system sacred.


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kicker
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06 Apr 2017, 12:17 pm

bjornflanagan wrote:
Ideologically, I've generally accepted that all valuations are subjective but they interact with each other on an objective level. Hence we have a myriad of value systems that ebb and flow between prominence and decline. Seeing the world this way leaves me as an amoralist on a philosophical level but I still have my own valuations and morality on a subjective level which I continually refine as I experience the world. On the philosophical side I look at society as a system with interacting power patterns (ideals, valuations, morality) and I can generally predict how they will interact and which power structures will become prominent. I guess, by abstracting ideology and society I make it less confusing.

Socially on a local level, I assume that everyone is lying until I see supporting actions. It makes it less confusing (unless they don't even know they are lying to themelves). Also, I see most interactions as running through a script. I've settled down into a small pack of lone wolves for my social circle and I view external society as irrelevant to my daily life.

When it comes to espousing my position I am reactive. I will gauge the other person's value systems first and issue a logical critique before affirming anything on my end. It might be easier for me to handle ideological debates though because my special interests are in normative philosophy and because I'm an amoralist I can approach any value system with sharp skepticism. I actually like to troll the trolls and waste their energy on me when I hold no actual value system sacred.


Just a quick question. I am curious...

I believe what you are saying is you enjoy getting even with those who you believe slight you or maybe someone else (a simple definition of a troll is a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post), because you consider yourself amoral, is that right?

Sorry, it seems a little odd to me to have an amoral belief system and be concerned with labeling others as trolls then seeking "vengeance" against them by manipulating them to submission. I just don't understand how that works and still fits into being amoral as it demonstrates a theory of right/wrong.

Though I can understand thinking that you may be amoral in order to keep from being hurt when others don't meet your expectation of right and wrong. I could be wrong and apologize if I am, I tend to think in a very logical way and A doesn't seem to equal B here for me, I may be dense and just not getting it.



bjornflanagan
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06 Apr 2017, 2:41 pm

Quote:
I believe what you are saying is you enjoy getting even with those who you believe slight you or maybe someone else (a simple definition of a troll is a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post), because you consider yourself amoral, is that right?


This is what I said:
Quote:
Seeing the world this way leaves me as an amoralist on a philosophical level but I still have my own valuations and morality on a subjective level which I continually refine as I experience the world.


I believe that our moral valuations have no objective grounds but we obviously still have them. I enjoy the debate itself and it just so happens that trolls will wear themselves out when I encounter them (I don't seek them out or anything).

When dealing with people in person I become more Socratic and will make few affirmative statements because I have difficulty expressing my own positions vocally (unless they wanted a conversation that would last hours because I take several minutes of silence to formulate the correct phrasing each time). Most of the time I try to keep quiet when religion, politics, or sociological issues come up because I don't know when the conversation goes too far.

But to recap... I am an amoralist on objective terms but have my own subjective valuations in spite of that. A false belief or fictions can still have an effect on an objective level but there isn't any righteousness in it. If we didn't give subjective value to things or ideas then we would end up as nihilists and i refuse that road.


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***Friedrich Nietzsche***


kicker
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06 Apr 2017, 3:33 pm

Ok, I got it. Thanks.



Queeringcal
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06 Apr 2017, 4:28 pm

Quote:
QUESTION: DO you find yourself in a similar situation, with a world constantly shrouded in vague interactions and confusing signals from other people?


Yes, responding to people and situations, is a challenge and when I get it wrong the consequences are often unpleasant. People can be very rude when they can get away with it. I, perhaps, create personas in order to deflect the criticism from my core self.


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Queering: "To queer is to examine our assumptions and decide which of them we want to keep, change, discard, or play with. This becomes a practice in transcending the habit of settling for pre-defined categories and creating new ones. And even when we leave something unchanged, we have changed our relationship to it."
Charlie Glickmann, PhD


simplylb
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06 Apr 2017, 11:02 pm

wrongcitizen wrote:
I find myself consistently confused by the behaviors of others, the attitudes of society, the direction of society, the way we live and suffer needlessly. I find myself torn between different moral resolutions, as well as multitudes of different religions, philosophies, and other general modes of thought. I can't seem to settle down ideologically and socially.


I guess I should preface this by saying that I am neurotypical, but you are not alone. I am not sure how old you are or what country you are from, but I am 29 and from Canada. I think that a lot of people in my (maybe your) generation feel this way, especially in college/university when you are still figuring things out for yourself and learning so much. I find that the older I have gotten, the less people seem to question things and it makes me really sad. It is amazing to me how many people refuse to think for themselves and just believe/follow what they have been told. I also don't know if you ever need to
'settle down' ideologically or socially. I think a lot of people settle because they get lazy or complacent or just plain tired. If you don't feel swayed one way or another, you don't HAVE to choose anything. Go another route. Be true to yourself.

wrongcitizen wrote:
I'm constantly attacked by people. I'm often involved in one sided barrages by people who I feel I barely know. Something about me is off putting, and it bothers me because I can turn seemingly logical, rational, friendly, and calm people into a mess of laughter and ridicule towards me, and I don't understand how I have this mystical ability. I wonder if I'm just naturally hate able?


You are NOT the problem. What you say might "trigger" certain people, but if they were truly friendly and calm people they wouldn't be treating you in a manner that makes you feel so bad. Have you told them how their words affect you? Sometimes people don't understand that they are being rude or mean when they are. If you have told them and they're still behaving this way then they are just jerks, plain and simple. They are not worth YOUR time.
I'm guessing you're in your early years of uni/college from what you've said, and so unfortunately I think a lot of the problem might be related to immaturity of the people around you. Unfortunately there can also be a lot of older jerks as well, but hopefully you will be able to find a community of like-minded individuals somewhere (like here for instance, but ideally in person as well). I might not have AS, but I do have social anxiety, and so trust me when I know that this can be hard, especially when you are already feeling isolated.

wrongcitizen wrote:
I have a massive desire to learn everything about the world. It comes in constantly. Constant questions, constant answers. It is satisfying. I learn multiple languages, I apply hundreds of mathematical equations to my own experiments, I have a massive fascination with cartography, chemistry, biology, botany, poetry, literature, and I'm constantly trying to find ways to express extreme emotions I feel by creating my own artistic expression. I have a very strong philosophical background.
Don't suppress it. Wanting to learn as much as you can about the world is an extraordinary trait and you should cherish it. You will find people who love that about you. Anyone who bullies you for this is just jealous.