support network for skeptical Aspies

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If you're up for building a support network for Aspies who don't believe in genetic limits and want to try self-improvement, private-messsage me.

I'm willing to put time and money into it if there are some other people. I used to work as a political and nonprofit organizer, and I know some useful people.

What do you mean by support network?

If you fit the above description, post what you need. I'll do what I can.

Would any of these be useful: transitional-housing, legal aid or addiction treatment (for psych drugs)?

I have a friend who's sitting in a group home. He has a court-appointed guardian. He's on nasty drugs. He never did anything wrong other than trying to escape his hit-and-run parents. He's been on the drugs since he was a little kid. He never had a decent lawyer. A proper legal defense could point out how badly he was treated at home and that none of his problems are any different from the side-effects of the drugs.

I'll pledge $10,000 to a legal fund to challenge cases like his. If you can challenge lie detectors and other crap science in court, why not this? Give me a decent test case in a juristiction with a shot at winning, and I'll make it $20,000 or more.

Last edited by NobodyKnows on 06 Apr 2014, 10:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Nope, not on drugs, but that sounds like a great idea what you doing.

Sounds kinda shady.

???

The only thing I can think of that would be quite helpful is a working AS-dating site.

You have a great compassion. The suffering of what has happened to this person is very profound and you are feeling it deeply. Of course a person wants to do something immediately, to put water on the fire. This is the kind of consciousness that changes the world and will help many suffering people, and to encourage this kind of compassion in others and to take a beginning step to help such suffering people and put your time and money into doing this is the kind of deed that accrues great merit. I will explain some other time what is meant in this context by merit, but you can think of it as a kind of weighting of the tape of oneself as interconnected to humanity, including future humanity, in such a direction of actualized potential to give a healing salve to relieve suffering from as many people as possible. To feel this kind of compassion for even one suffering person and then consciously act on it is to give hope to all living beings.

However, I suggest to save your money for a little while until you have a clearer idea of what to do with it.

Let's enquire a little bit into why this horrible thing has happened to your friend. As those who have read my messages know. I do not believe that genetics in itself is an explanation for the phenomena of autism, though it is some kind of factor, but I think it is important to question if belief in the genetics only rationale is really why this is happening to your friend. I suggest that the real reason this is happening to your friend is because of wrong thinking by humans in general and not necessarily because of the the genetic slant, per se, so maybe this is something we could enquire into.

Secondly, self improvement can be practiced by anyone who is autistic, whether he believes in the entirely-genetic story or not. The problem is that people who do not want to practice self improvement, which practice I call work, will find all kinds of reasons and excuses not to work, the genetics angle being just one of them, and this relates back to their own thinking in general, but not just their own thinking, but also their own feeling,.this latter being in my opinion a key point.

Personally I would be more inclined to start from the angle of learning, so some kind of learning facility that offers support to people who want to encourage each other to think more clearly and also make efforts, but then each person needs to do what moves him. One subject I am very interested in is false imprisonment. Certain lawyers devote a lot of time and money to helping a very few people who these lawyers believe are falsely imprisoned, or even just one or two people and they are very deeply passionate about this, and sometimes they do succeed in freeing innocent people who have been imprisoned very many years and are even on death row. Ultimately these stories do get into the news,, and these news stories and television specials do eventujally affect the legal system, though I am not sure how much. And also, re another kind of instance, the stand-your-ground law may be eventually changed in Florida and this will keep some people from suffering, but the wrong thinking of the people behind making these kind of laws and behind the thinking of prosecutors who deliberately slant or even omit significant data in order to get a conviction that leads to false imprisonment will not really be changed by this. For me I try to think about what will have the biggest impact. However, again, a person needs to go by what is meaningful and interesting for himself to do, so what moves him.

In any case, I would suggest to go slow and think about this carefully, and a good first step which you have taken is to start a thread here to enquire into this subject. You have done an action that is interconnected with your feeling of great compassion toward your friend, and this alone will amplify that compassion in such a way that it will touch and affect many other people.

I appreciate that, although it's half-selfish. I wouldn't benefit much from housing and anti-drug treatment by the time either would be up and running, but a legal case could help a lot of us, myself included.

People spend $100,000 on college tuition to open up opportunities, so what's $10,000 or $20,000 to do the same?

Here are some advantages to going to court:

1: They're obligated to give you a formal hearing. Even if everybody says that your claim is wrong, you still have a right to be heard by a judge.

2: There are criteria for issuing verdicts*, and I believe that the judge has to justify it in writing. It's open to appeal.

(*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_%28legal%29#U.S._federal_courts)

3: People are used to being cynical about evidence presented in court.

4: In cases like my friend's, the burden of proof in on the accusing party.

Compare that to academics: The obvious question to ask is "What about the data that you've published is specific to a genetic cause?" I was raised by two doctors. They broke their own rules to get Asperger's diagnoses for their two kids.

Rule 1: You don't have proof until you've ruled out other possibilities. There's been a lot of new data since my grandparents' time, but most of it could point to either nature or nurture.

Rule 2: Try the less invasive therapy first. My folks understood it with back surgery (physical therapy is just as good). Why drug a kid before dealing with family problems?

Rule 3: Make sure that the therapy works. They understood it with temporal artery bypass (which doesn't reduce damage from strokes) and mammograms (which do not increase life expectancy).

If they had a straight answer, I would've heard it by now. The advantage in going to court is that they're required to hear your argument. Mine is pretty simple: the data just isn't there. It could be true, but intelligent design could be true, too. Why should I be forced by some self-interested thug into giving up on myself prematurely? I'll wait 'till I'm actually beaten, thank you very much.

The answer matters in ways that might give you standing to press various types of cases (especially the last one):

1: If it's incurable, then nobody has a reason to help. If it's only curable with drugs or aggressive therapy, then nobody outside of a doctor's office does. I'm not asking for extra-special care, just the normal engagement that even dirt-poor kids benefit from at least a little. Not many people grow up to be class-acts all by their lonely selves. That engagement (or lack thereof) is as important as your race or level of education. Who has any right to force this on me?

2: If it's genetic or epi-genetic, you can kiss a lot of dating opportunity good-bye. You can kiss a lot of jobs good-bye because employers will assume that what they see in the interview is the best that you'll ever have to offer. With a normal person who's under 30, they'll chalk a lot up to immaturity

3: You can be denied civil rights on the basis of a diagnosis (as my friend has been), in which case you have clear standing to sue.

With the press and academics, they can brush you off as a weirdo and unqualified, without knowing you or hearing you out. In court they have to answer your claim. I'm willing to bet that they can't.

NobodyKnows, so your friend being forced to take these drugs against his will. That is very very sad.

I know you are moved by compassion and want to do something, and you will. However, I do not see that making some kind of court case that autism is not genetic (which case I don't even see how you could make) could help your friend be taken off medication, even if you won.

The friend that I mentioned is dead, likely as a result of the drugs.