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C2V
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12 Sep 2017, 9:31 am

I read comments by autistics sometimes (here and elsewhere) that say they "fake" eye contact by looking at a person's eyebrows, nose, etc and that others don't seem to notice they're not actually making eye contact, because they're looking in the right general area.
I don't see how this is possible to get away with. Would not the other person KNOW you aren't making eye contact, because they could FEEL you aren't?
I never make eye contact. Hard line. But If I ever do make eye contact accidentally, I get INSTANT squick, like looking at the sun. It's a visceral instinctual feeling of NO and I have to look away and feel freaked out by it for ages afterwards, and will be careful to not even look AT other people at all, let alone their heads, in case it happens again accidentally.
Don't other people feel that contact, when eye-to-eye happens? Or don't they feel anything at all, and that's why a canny autistic can "fake" this contact by staring at their eyebrows?
Not feeling that instant NO seems incredibly alien to me.


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Dear_one
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12 Sep 2017, 10:12 am

They do, but the feeling is of recognition, not an alien presence.



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12 Sep 2017, 11:29 am

I am undiagnosed.

Personally, I tend to look "in the general direction" of the eyes (alternating between the point between the eyebrows and the nose) some of the time, around the space in which I am talking to the person some of the time, and actually into the person's eyes very occasionally for very short amounts of time, usually when they are saying something about which I think they require some special acknowledgment that they're being listened to. I found eye contact impossible as a child and adolescent, but I can do it now, though it depends on the person whose eyes they are as well. In very small doses, I find it pointless (for myself, not for a conversational partner) at best and uncomfortable at worst.

I don't know if they notice I do not look into their actual eyes, to be honest. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. I haven't been "called out" on it since I was a teenager, maybe because what I do now blends in, or maybe just because adults don't call other adults out on that kind of thing? I do think people who like eye contact prefer it when people who don't look in the general direction of their eyes than with their face turned all the way away from theirs, etc.



Raleigh
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12 Sep 2017, 2:53 pm

I need to look at people's lips when they speak and oddly, people seem really flattered by this.

I've even had quite a few people think I'm signalling romantic interest.
Yikes.


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dragonsanddemons
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12 Sep 2017, 3:05 pm

The idea of people not feeling eye contact is perplexing to me, too - but so is the idea of people not being able to feel other people's electromagnetic fields, which apparently most people don't. It's such a significant part of my life that I can't even imagine what it might be like to not feel it. Eye contact doesn't cause physical pain for me like looking at the sun, but it does make me quite uncomfortable. I can manage it for a few seconds before I really start to get antsy and have to look away. I usually make occasional quick glances of eye contact.


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billegge
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12 Sep 2017, 6:01 pm

Dear_one wrote:
They do, but the feeling is of recognition, not an alien presence.


Thats what I think too.



starcats
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12 Sep 2017, 6:31 pm

I usually get accused of staring at people. For the most part, people are inside their own heads and I am okay looking at their eyes because they aren't really seeing me anyway. It feels like observation. When someone does look back with the intention of connecting, yes, squick.



starcats
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12 Sep 2017, 6:44 pm

dragonsanddemons wrote:
The idea of people not feeling eye contact is perplexing to me, too - but so is the idea of people not being able to feel other people's electromagnetic fields



Yes!



Edna3362
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12 Sep 2017, 7:38 pm

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I haven't figured why.


I see eye contact more of a utility thing than a social/emotional 'tell'. :lol:
Because from where I live, to notice which running tricycle is available for a ride in a middle of the road, it requires eye contact and acknowledging eye contact. Along with few minor body languages and gestures (nods/head shakes, shrugs, hand waves, lip pointing...).


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SplendidSnail
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12 Sep 2017, 10:16 pm

Dear_one wrote:
They do, but the feeling is of recognition, not an alien presence.

Alien Presence - that's a really good description of what it feels like to look someone in the eyes. Thanks for the great way of describing it.
:)


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C2V
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13 Sep 2017, 9:47 am

Quote:
They do, but the feeling is of recognition, not an alien presence.

And -
Quote:
Alien Presence - that's a really good description of what it feels like to look someone in the eyes.

Funny how things are interpreted - this isn't exactly what I meant by alien. I meant that the idea that someone could look another person right in the eyes and not feel SQUICK/NONONO! was an entirely alien concept to me, foreign and incomprehensible. Like how is that possible? I can't imagine eye-contact without that aversion. That instant need to look away and feeling freaked out by it happening.
I still don't know how people fake it by not actually looking at the eyes though, if normal people can indeed feel the difference in some way.
I get uncomfortable even being able to see people's eyes in my peripheral vision, when I'm looking at their hands, bodies, past them etc, or when I deliberately position the top frame of my glasses across their eyes so I can't actually see them. I can meet someone and have a whole conversation and never have known what colour their eyes were.


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StampySquiddyFan
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13 Sep 2017, 3:51 pm

I fake eye contact in certain situations, and in other situations I just stare at the ground because it is too painful to even attempt to fake it. People generally aren't rude enough to point it out, so I get off easy :D !


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13 Sep 2017, 11:28 pm

I wonder this too. Like with the other autistics I know or if I dated the person, I can make perfect eye contact. But for anyone else, I feel vulnerable and violated. Eyes are like lasers I can't stand. I look at people's mouths most of the time.


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SplendidSnail
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13 Sep 2017, 11:32 pm

Before it came to my attention that I might have Asperger's five months ago, I actually did think that everyone felt the same way as I do when looking people in the eye. I also didn't realise how little eye contact I made compared with others.


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Dear_one
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13 Sep 2017, 11:36 pm

The expectation for eye contact varies widely among cultures. Unfortunately, the Police seem to be trained to assume that lack of eye contact is a sure sign of lying.



crystaltermination
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14 Sep 2017, 9:57 am

C2V wrote:
But If I ever do make eye contact accidentally, I get INSTANT squick, like looking at the sun.

One of the best descriptions I've read regarding the eye-contact issue: it's exactly this for me, not pain per se but just one big bowl of nopes the moment my eyes meet someone else's.
One unpleasant branch of this problem I find is those times when one accidentally meets a total stranger's eyes in public; it can happen with quite a good amount of distance between the two parties as well, but the sensations aren't diluted by this factor at all.
Mostly this happens to me when I'm on the bus - I'll go for a window seat if I can and look out the window. Sometimes people's line of vision just collide and it's like a jolt of power gets conducted. If I'm thinking something when this happens, there's the strangest sensation that these thoughts have run head first into a brick wall.


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