Have you dealt with defamation?

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I mean, more in an individual sense, rather than a collective one... being defamed for having HFA/ASD, with the typical absurd canards like "serial killer", "pedophile", "rapist", "sociopath", "lazy fraud who's just trying to get state benefits", bla bla bla bla bla.

Although I once had a sociopathic housemate who made behind-the-back verbal comments like this about me, I had no evidence, no recording or anything, so there was little I could do. I don't think anyone took him all that seriously, I think they just laughed as if I was a deviant and his words weren't to be taken literally...heck even as a (hitherto undiagnosed) Aspie at the time, I didn't take it literally when I heard. I didn't bother confronting him b/c I knew the coward would just deny it

Can't say I've suffered any libelous remarks, but I did find out one online: the case of Philip Gluyas, a man with ASD in Australia who was grossly defamed by a U.S. blogger who called him all those nasty names, and he was awarded $50K which you can Google. Good for him

Unfortunately, this is some of the crap some of us have had to put up with in our under-18 years, when peers could get away with assault, threats, vandalism, and other sociopathic behaviour including defamation. They could do so with impunity knowing they'd never be faced with criminal and/or civil consequences (but some of them eventually do b/c they think they're untouchable, and surprise, surprise...)

I understand the "gay" defamation canard is all too common among guys with ASD/HFA, but that's not so bad of an insult up here in Canada and other advanced countries - more so in places like Alabama or Tennessee but that's a topic for umpteen other threads on WP.

All of which is to say, sometimes dealing with defamation can be a touchy and grey area - for instance, if someone openly claimed in writing to others that you were "faking it" regarding your ASD, would you really want to sue for that...knowing any precedents might get media exposure and make things worse, as prospective employers doing a google search would see your stigmatized condition and curtail your job prospects even further
Best to avoid such idiotic trolls, unless they openly accuse you of one of those aforementioned sociopathic labels, in which case you should legally fight back

You should have done it anyway. Yes, there will be a denial or even "gas lighting" (when the person tries to make you think you're crazy for saying what you're saying). But it would still be better to approach these things head on. So maybe that time they guy was an idiot and no one believed him. But what happens next time if someone more respectable talks rubbish about you?

Let me tell you about what I'm going through at the moment. Sorry in advance for it being so convoluted.

I live at my place of work in a company house and there are two other houses on site as well where two other guys live in their own company house (a bit unusual I know but stick with me).
So let's call one guy Person A. He's a self confessed alcoholic but actually a pretty fun loving prankster. Most people like him because he's talkative and charismatic. Those types of personality traits are about the only things I have ever envied in my life.
Then there's Person B, who lives in the other house. Also a bit of a drinker (probably about the same as me or a bit more) but not a full blown drunk like A. He's the overall manager of the site and so our boss.
There's waaaaay too much history between them to go into it completely but here's the most relevant stuff. They've known each other for about 10 years (from a previous job with same company). But in September 2016, person A found out person B (and his defacto wife) covertly recorded a conversation between A and B and then passed it to person A's girlfriend with the intention of making them split up (A was always cheating on her and bragging about it to B). So things were tense between them but they were still friends.
Then in March 2017 person B and his defacto wife accused A of sexually assaulting her (B's wife). Things got pretty crazy at work as you could imagine. It was at this time (when I slightly believed A more than B) that I started recording private conversations with myself and B. I would then tell A what was said and offered for him to listen to the accusations etc. I thought he should be able to defend himself. Some of the things he heard B say was that B and his wife were thinking of having him charged by the cops with sexual assault, B threatened to report A's girlfriend to immigration (apparently she had some visa issue that I didn't know about), A also heard B gloating about wanting to "stab him in the throat". Pretty nasty stuff. Looking back, I should have just f*****g left and got another job. But living at work, not paying rent and utilities... it's pretty tempting, especially after I paid huge amounts of rent and bills alone for over 12 months after my ex broke up with me. I was living hand to mouth and unable to save, so that's my excuse for sticking around.

Anyway, despite my standing up for person A (we even got human resources to come and talk to everyone about the whole mess), I knew that there was still 10 years of history between them. I got myself stuck in the middle of something I really shouldn't have. Always knowing it could backfire if they both did their trademark backstabbing and joining forces again to turn on me. I knew it was possible and wouldn't take much.

Quite some time passed and we had a work meeting. The manager, person B, called in his supervisor and we had to discuss my performance. This hurt because, looking back on it now, yes I needed a talking to. But my bad performance and attitude was completely dwarfed by that of certain others, including person A. In that meeting I turned to person A and asked him to back me up on certain points (things that he and I both knew were true) but he looked at me like a stranger and threw me under the bus. 'You little snake' I thought. It happened. He and person B were talking again and I was the only thing standing in the way of them being able to act like none of it had ever happened between them.

I decided to distance myself from person A (we used to have lunch at my house or his during the lunch break and also drank at night and played pool or whatever). I focused completely on work and heard directly from person B (and also indirectly from someone he'd spoken to) that my performance had really turned a corner. So that made me happy.

But something started to bother me. When I was still hanging out with him, person A would occasionally take mail from the shared mailbox that the whole site used and open stuff that wasn't his. I knew this was a federal crime in the states but wasn't sure if it was as serious here in Australia. Then when I started to hear little indirect comments from other people (not even person A or person B) about opening other people's mail, my neurosis kicked into overdrive and I started to think person A might try to blame me for doing it when it was him.

I googled opening mail not addressed to you in Australia. Possible 5 year prison sentence. Oh dear. I started drinking with person A again and he didn't question it. Being an alcoholic he was just happy to have an enabler around. I didn't have a clear plan to start with. First I'd get drunk then ask, while recording him, 'hey, remember when you opened person B's mail and it was a credit card?' and we'd laugh and then I would probe a bit more. 'You threw it away, right?' When he said no I almost didn't believe it. Why the hell would he keep it? It seemed like a liability. I knew person B not only hated me but wanted me gone from the job (yes, he was literally stupid enough to say this in a work meeting). If person A, who he knew for 10 years, said to person B that the credit card was in my house he would have jumped at the chance. This is when I decided I had to find that card and take it to person B.

One afternoon we drank way too much and as we walked inside his house through the back door person A began vomiting up red wine. He cleaned it up and got in the shower. I thought 'this is it'. I began recording video on my phone and looked in the bottom of anything that could be considered a cupboard (this is where he said it was hidden). I recorded so that I could show where it was found if it was really still there. Plus, I knew a friend of his went overseas and left a really expensive watch collection at his house so I didn't want to be accused of stealing anything.

He got out of the shower and things were just instantly tense. I was acting weird. He was acting weird. Then he was like 'Bro, I think I'm just gonna have a lie down and go to bed early tonight'. And I was like 'yeah cool, me too' and I abruptly left. That night I was just waiting for him to call or text me asking 'where is it?' or something. He didn't.

But things were instantly different within a day or two. I knew that he knew it was gone. He immediately began making funny little comments and I decided to try and justify my actions to him (and myself if I'm honest). I remember the last time I drank with him. It was Thursday of that week. He made a couple more indirect comments (possibly some of them was just me being guilty and paranoid?). And his friend overseas was bothering him to take pics of his watches and send them to him. So I was like "Why? Is he worried someone will go through your cupboards and steal things?" and he was like "No no, he's just tripping. Don't worry about it". Then he accidentally locked himself outside the house and had to reach in a window to unlock the backdoor. I was sitting at a bench watching and even though I'd seen him do this many times before he acted like it was new to me and said "Now that you've seen how to open my door, don't sneak in and steal >his partner's name's< underwear, okay?" And that was it.

I asked him "A, do you have something you want to say to me?" and I immediately realised the irony of the situation. I grabbed that credit card and planned to tell person B so I wouldn't be blamed for something I didn't do and yet here I was, having placed myself in a situation where he could say anything like that. I began wondering if maybe he'd gotten in first (as soon as he realised the card was gone) and already told person B that I'd stolen something from his house (his friend's watches? his partner's underwear even?). I just began speaking for like 5 minutes about how I'd always been a good friend to him, 100% loyal, even when person B was trying to ruin his relationship, get him fired for "workplace sabotage" (which wasn't true), even threatening to get his girlfriend deported. I stuck by him and then, when it was convenient for both of them, he threw me under the bus in that meeting that day. I expected this from person B, but not him. I allowed him to respond and I think I left within the next hour or so after some fake niceties. The next morning, Friday, I told person B about the card. Even showed him a photo of it, played a few seconds of the video (just the start where A is on his hands and knees wiping up his own vomit). He was tickled pink. Encouraged me not to feel bad about doing it (even though I did) and assured me that he would do what I asked him. Get us separate mailboxes at each house.

But by the next week I could tell I'd screwed up. I should have known that person B would either take A's side or at the very least use the whole scandal to get rid of both of us. So as it stands, I'm suspended from work with full pay. Person A has already quit. And now I'm waiting for the company's national industrial relation manager to come next Tuesday to hand down her ruling. At a meeting 2 weeks ago I admitted to everything I did (and explained that everyone else on site was doing the same stuff- working under the influence of alcohol, recording conversations etc). They told me then I wasn't being terminated. That we'd all be getting final warnings. But now that person A has quit (he's still here and I spoke to him for a couple of hours yesterday but he'll be moving out of the house in a week or so) I think it's time for me to go as well. A part of me actually trusted person B to report the mail tampering to his supervisor and just quietly resolve it by giving us each our own mailbox. But speaking to that supervisor myself yesterday afternoon, person B never even mentioned my mailbox request. He just tried to make me look crazy and paranoid while person A has said god only knows what. But I'm not a thief and I had my reason for doing what I did. I wouldn't do it again and I can't wait to get out of here now. Even that supervisor told me yesterday afternoon that he couldn't believe person B even gave person A a job. He used to be their supervisor at their previous job for the same company and he said they were the same there as well. Supposedly best friends but always ready to screw each other over in a heartbeat. I have never met anyone like these two guys and now I've been told I need to go see someone for counseling. If it comes out that person A and/or B have made anything up about me, yeah I'm not doing that anymore. I'm gonna use the legal system to turn their whole f*****g world's upside down. I've dealt with the same b/s you describe that most guys on the spectrum put up with. I'm not having it anymore.

I read through your ENTIRE post (yes, I actually did!!) and it sounds like these two people are vindictive a--holes who are addicted to drama in one form or another. So yes, don't let yourself be the "punching bag" for either of them to spout untruths from a distance...

Thanks Jayo (for reading it all and the advice). The two of them can be very proud of themselves because if they wanted to wear me down, they have.

You would be good to be done with that situation. Actually, it reminds me of my family of origin and why I haven't associated with them for many, many years. There are people in the world who get very trapped in very sick situations. I am sorry for what you went through.

Somewhat/possibly.

I once worked with a man who had a personality disorder and, due to forgetfulness/inattentivness on his part, thought I had done something that I had not, and thus decided I was "all bad", meaning I could do no right by him. Whatever I did, no matter how kind or benign, he would interpret it in a negative manner.

Completely out of the blue, he sent a group email one night making a number of accusations against me. I was quite shocked but thankfully I suspected early on that he had a personality disorder and was minding and documenting my interactions with him carefully and was able to exonerate myself and he apologized. He may have made further defamatory accusations about mr to a superior but by that time, the project had ended and we had parted ways and I was no longer under the leadership of that superior. It would be a bit odd for me to seek that superior out and ask, what, if anything, was said about me. In any case I still have all of the documentation to defend myself if need be.

What documentation do you have? Written "contemporaneous notes", as the lawyers call them? Or did you record conversations with this person to protect yourself?

I don't know about where you guys are from but in New South Wales it's illegal to record people without consent. If you've felt the need to record people (like I have) how do you guys feel about it? Even if it was completely legal I'd still feel pretty awful about it. It feels sneaky and unfair, even when I believe that someone is a complete dirtbag.

Although I should point out that under section 7 of Australia's 2007 surveillances device ACT, you only need the consent of one principal party involved in the conversation (and this includes you yourself believe it or not!). But if you're recording with only your own knowledge and consent then it needs to be strictly in the defense of your own lawful interests. If I'd ever needed to come forward with those recordings I made I could only hope that people would see and agree that I was trapped with untrustworthy people trying to destroy each other. And I predicted (correctly) that at some point they might bury the hatchet with each other and then turn against me.

Sorry for anyone who tried to wade through my long rambling yarn above but if you did, you'd know that person B and his partner were already known to record people as far back as August or September 2016. So by the time mid to late 2017 rolled around I just took it for granted that any time I was alone with one or both of them I was being recorded. I feel a bit bad about this now but I sometimes used those occasions to cause a bit of mischief making. For instance, I would admit (truthfully or not) to taking short cuts at work or other wrong doing but I'd mix it in with examples of when I knew they'd done the same thing or something similar. So they couldn't present it to someone without also screwing themselves over or having to do some suspicious editing lol.

One night I got really drunk with both person B and his wife and I seeded them with something really juicy just to see if they'd be dumb enough to put it out there to try to get me into trouble like they did to person A with his girlfriend. Person B and his wife aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer so I figured they wouldn't understand the implications of the law around recording and how it's only allowed in NSW for self defense, not playing vindictive games with other people's lives. Oh, and I made sure the crap that I fed them was relevant but easily falsifiable because I'm not a total idiot like them.

Please guys, share any instances where you felt the need to record conversations. This whole thing has ended up being kind of traumatic and I'd like to talk with people about it.

Primarily e-mails between us and shared documents. I also have witnesses. I believe the laws concerning recording conversations where you are a similar to the laws where I am. I do not think his behavior would have differed at all I had audio or even video recorded our interactions, even if I were upfront with him about it.