NT spouses with Aspergers spouses

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So, I'm reading online about stories with NT spouses (females) with Aspie spouses. They are all depressing. Pretty much all of them say that their spouse is dictative, verbally abusive, and just plain unattached. They are talking that marriage is pretty much hell for them. Their spouse seems to live in their own worlds and are constantly rude to the family. I'm wondering if these people are really AS or just as*holes. Where does one draw the line between diagnosis and just being a jerk?

-http://www.lhj.com/relationships/can-this-marriage-be-saved/unsolvable-conflicts/my-husband-has-aspergers/
-http://www.city-data.com/forum/mental-health/1085379-aspergers-syndrome-husband-violent.html
-http://kathy.thetorrences.com/?p=2508
-http://kids-hair5.blogspot.com/2009/10/my-husband-was-reacently-diagnosed-with.html


I am not trying to offend anyone on WP nor am I grouping every one on the spectrum. I'd appreciate if people did not attack me, but rather debate while being respectful of others.

I've wondered the same, about my husband. For me, the point is not about whether he is the way he is because of AS or not. The question is, what am I going to do to cope? I don't think that AS should be used as an excuse to feel shackled to someone who doesn't treat me well. On the one hand, I can gain a greater understanding of certain aspects of his thinking process, which can empower me in our interactions. On the other hand, so can HE! If he is willing to embrace the notion that AS has something to do with the way he is, and thereby LEARN how to cope, rather than just surrendering to "i'm just a jerk - it's who I am" then maybe we can work together. And yes, he is a jerk. And AS or not, I will not stay in a situation where I am disrespected. Understanding AS has given me some knowledge and grace to understand and accept him, but that does not require me to accept his behavior if he is crossing boundaries into my zone. Right now, I stay because I can see that he is trying, and I have marked definite improvements in the past 4 years. But should those improvements cease, or we reach an impasse which says "this is as good as it gets"... well, then I have the freedom to choose to leave, and AS or not, I can do so without guilt. AS isn't a reason to stay, or to excuse bad behavior away. But understanding it has given me a greater ability to empathize with him, and to me, that's a good thing.

I often think the aspies are the jerks and I wonder if the women are just placing an AS label on them to blame for their as*hole behavior. And sometimes it's just the woman being a jerk when they mention their AS symptoms like the time I saw a thread on AS partners and someone couldn't stand her husband's sensory issues so she decided to just torture him with the smells because she wasn't going to live that way she said. It just made me mad when I read that thread. But that was the way my own family treated me too except it was about my anxiety and my OCD and they decided as screw it and they made messes and were lazy and I had anxiety when they moved stuff and kept things out of place. Like I leave the kitchen all clean and then I'd blow a gasket when I see a knife out on the counter top with crumbs or with some on the floor. Also they fact they let my brothers be in my personal space and let them have parties and get mad at me when I have anxiety and when they stress me out when they make too much noise. So that thread angered me and triggered those feelings in my teens. Also sensory issues it not something that can be worked on, it can only be treated through occupational therapy.

The first link sounded a lot like AS. But he did have it and it sounds like things turned out well once they knew what the problem was. He started working on stuff he had trouble in.

The third link was good and I don't miss my husband either. This reminds me when mom asked me in 2009 if I miss her and I said "No." That hurt her feelings but right away decided that is a good sign then because it meant I was happy and my husband was taking care of me. I could relate to the article there. Mom knows I have empathy and she can see things from my perspective and how I communicate. She also likes how logical I am. I remember her telling me how she is going to miss my brother and I told her "At least you have less money to spend now, less food to buy and lower electric bill and less messes and less dishes to and and laundry" and mom told me I had a good way of making bad things into good things and she loves that about me. Now I wonder if that was wrong to say because all parents miss their kids when they grow up and go off to college and instead of giving her emotional support, I go for logic to make her feel better by having her look on the bright side. Now today I just keep my mouth shut except to people who know me. And I do tell my husband to go lay down when he says he isn't feeling good.

And ugh I hate it when they say AS is a illness

Ah, that'll be Maxine Aston's little cult...

Don't pay any attention to them. Half of all NT/NT marriages fail--half of all NT/AS marriages fail too. (I think I heard somewhere that the percentage was actually somewhat lower, but I can't remember where, so I won't officially make that claim.) And when that happens and one of the partners is diagnosed with AS, of course the other one has an easy way out, "Hey! It's not my fault! My partner is crazy!"

Sometimes the AS partner is a jerk. Sometimes the NT partner is the jerk. Sometimes both or neither. I doubt it has much to do with AS.

With all due respect, I couldn't disagree stronger! My wife is NT, and I'm an Aspie. She also is a member here (WifeOfAspie), and we have what we find to be a very healthy relationship. It probably helps that she was a Special Ed teacher early in her career. In our relationship, I place myself as the "follower" in most cases; certainly not in a dictatorial position in any way (except for forbidding the use of candles in the house, LOL). We have better communication, stronger loyalty, and a better overall relationship than most NT couples we know. (God willing).

I have the feeling that perhaps some of the written accounts to which you refer, may be by women who don't understand the communications issues with Asperger's. It is true that we need to be explicit when asking for something, and we need those around us to also be somewhat direct, or there will be a grand crash of miscommunication.

I'm not the world's expert, and certainly I could be all wrong on this, but I think it bears further investigation.

Charles

I am a NT married to a AS husband. He is not a jerk. We have an amazing relationship actually. I do think that a major part of that is that I am his *special interest*. He always has been so he is very loving and does not like to hurt me, my feelings or anything around me. We are christians so we do have God leading our relationship and how it needs to be. We dont fight (very rarely we will have a few little words but nothing bad). I love him and he loves me and I can honestly say 100 percent we wil never get divorced. We just wont. We would never cheat on each other, and there is nothing else that would make us divorce. We are together for the long haul and we have a wonderful healthy, fun, serious when it needs to be, relationship. I am happy!

I dont want to say there isnt other things that may annoy other people. I understand my husband cant help how he thinks so I have to just let things go and not let them annoy me when he does something wrong/backwards/less then cordial. But because I know he cant help it, its easy to just let it go. Sometimes he will say something like "You didnt marry me to be my mother" and beats himself up. But honestly I dont have to do everything for him. I am a stay at home mom and he works hard. I dont expect much from him in the home because he has other things he needs to do plus he isnt very good at it lol. I guess if I expected him to work then come home and clean and make dinner and watch the kids we would fight more, but I dont put alot on him so it works out nicely!

I just want to be clear that, while I did state above that my husband can be quite a jerk, I don't "blame" it on Asperger's, nor do I assume that others with Asperger's would necessarily be jerks, either. In the case of my husband, the diagnosis actually helped him to understand himself better, and thankfully that has given him the impetus to grow. It's also helped me to understand more about how he thinks, and how we can communicate together more effectively.

I just didn't want it to sound as if I believed that he was a jerk because of asperger's. He's actually less of a jerk now that he has a deeper understanding about himself, and realizes that the reason that I don't think like him isn't because I'm broken, it's just because we are different.

Is she the one that invented "Cassandra Syndrome"

Good lord is that a pile of crap.

The truth is there are more than a few that put the ass in Asperger's. And there are quite a few that don't. Each relationship is as individual as the two people involved. It can be very challenging. It can be very rewarding.

I haven't looked at the links yet. But I'm an Aspie married to an NT wife, and we're going through some pretty rough patches now. And a lot of it is related to my depression and/or AS and/or alexithymia.

There are a lot of times I say or do something that really hurts her or pisses her off, without intending to at all. And we're at a point now where she's sick of it, and I'm sick of it too (both the "unintentionally hurting her" part and the "being at the receiving end of her being pissed off" part). It's a very, very frustrating place.

Yes and I have heard she has changed her views on AS and marriages. She doesn't sound that negative as she used to.

Well maybe there's hope for her. Nobody with an once of sense would say that an Aspie is an easy partner to have. I suppose it could happen, but there are definite challenges. It is important to learn the differences between things like alexithymia and just foolish stubbornness. There is nothing in the Aspie club rules that says we can't behave as grown ups.

I believe the "latest stats" on NT/AS marriages is a close to an 80% failure rate.
IMHO, this is probably understated, since the morbidities leading to problems in marriage are usually not clearly associated with a primary axis condition, and therefore not seen as AS issues. Clearly identifying the reactive and proactive elements in the socially intensive emotional system of Marriage may be very difficult for the spectrum partner. And the lack thereof, neither understood nor accepted by the NT partner. I do not see how that system can function, or how an NT can be criticized for leaving.

I'm diagnosed HFA and married to an NT woman for 41 years. Two sons and four grandchildren.
That is, to me, totally against all logic, but still, a multi-point-verified hard reality.

And reality always wins.

I can see about a dozen ways that study could've been skewed. Think about it--who goes to counseling and gets diagnosed, people who are happily married or people who are having problems?

I doubt that the 80% figure is valid. The age group most likely to be getting divorces right now is the same age group that's too old to have been diagnosed with AS as children.

Most likely, it's the other way around: Getting divorced makes you more likely to be diagnosed with AS, because you're more likely to seek counseling.

The only long-term studies now available are probably the ones done on Asperger's original cohort...

Follow-up study on early AS cases

So yeah, pretty much the same rate as NTs...

Hah, I was about to mention that author, "The Other Half of Asperger Syndrome" just put a negative spin on the whole thing. Yeah, people who don't believe that they have a chance will probably fail, this author does a great disservice to us all. The outcome will be better with hope, instead of some crazy lady making statements that tear the hope out of someones heart. I honestly did not read it throughly as it just made me sick, so I can't comment too much about it. My wife did not come out of it feeling great (about the book), but thankfully it didn't convince her to leave me

I see it as the same situation as 'what age should you notify someone about having Asperger's'. If I knew about it when I was any younger than when I got DX'd, I don't think my life would have been as great as it is now, as a younger self would find it easier to make an excuse out of it than use it to adapt going forward like I do now.

I can't really bring myself to hate her too much; she is divorced from her possibly-AS husband and apparently blames the divorce on the Asperger's. I can only assume she is bitter about the divorce and has not yet resolved the feelings involved with such a major life event... Diagnosing one's husband with AS and blaming the failed relationship on that is an odd way to cope, but people have done odder things when their families fell apart.

Yes, I am the Wife of Aspie above, and I wanted to make a few comments myself. I think the main issue when comparing an Aspie/NT relationship to an NT/NT relationship should only be about the specific traits of an Aspie that are very different from NT's. For example, my EX-husband was NOT an Aspie, but he was a very selfish man, self-absorbed, often negative, and he did things on purpose, on a regular basis to hurt my feelings. I just want to point out that being with anyone in a relationship (Aspie or NT), with that kind of behavior, it is inappropriate and unacceptable (especially when it is done with bad intentions).

Once you can say without a doubt that the offensive behavior is something your Aspie partner really has trouble recognizing, and they really don't know when the behavior they are exhibiting is received as offensive, then you have a whole different story! For me, intention is EVERYTHING! And, my wonderful Aspie husband knows that he has difficulty in the area of identifying certain behaviors that I might perceive as rude or insensitive. But, once he knows that I perceive a particular behavior as rude or insensitive (by my way of thinking), he is 100% willing to look at alternative, possibly more constructive ways of dealing with the same situation with me in the future. And therein lies the difference.

If I were to try and ignore any and all inferences from him (that I deemed hurtful or inappropriate) that would just end up with me being mad all of the time, and it wouldn't help either of us in the future. And we all know what happens when you try to hold in emotions (psychologically, you're usually heading for a major blow up later on). My responsibility as an NT (and partner of an Aspie) is to be able to explain very specifically (and sometimes in depth) the actual behavior that is frustrating to me, since the Aspie might not make the same conclusion about that behavior. Especially if you are subtle in the least (like putting your hands on your hips, trying to HINT that you are mad about something), while he takes random guesses at why you're mad, quite unsuccessfully. Expecting him to recognize subtlety and innuendo is like whispering to a deaf person while facing the opposite direction. It doesn't work! And just as if you were married to a deaf person (and were not deaf yourself), you might want to learn sign language in order to communicate more effectively with your partner. If you're married to an AS, you might want to learn how to communicate WITHOUT using hints or subtle facial clues to get your point across. Most NT's learn how to communicate this way (intuitively), but Aspies do not.

Admittedly, I use to teach Special Education, and I'm am very used to trying to communicate with all kinds of people (who are differently-abled). And it helps that I have always felt it was my responsibility to make the communication work for both of us. And when the communication does break down (as it inevitably will), I'll usually try to find another way to make the same point in the future.

Now, I should also add that both my husband and I agree that the Aspie's responsibility in the relationship to an NT is to listen to the NT (when they try to communicate a need), and try to make sense of what they're saying (even if it doesn't make sense to them), and even if that isn't how they MEANT for their action to be perceived. Just like any successful relationship, both partners have to be willing to work on their part of the communication (to the best of their ability) in order for it to work. For instance, if I search the depths of my intellect trying to find the exact analogy to make my point understood, and my Aspie partner just tells me that he isn't capable of understanding, nor capable of working on it (whatever "it" may be), then obviously, that will not work either (no matter how good the communication is on the NT side)!

So, the main difference in an NT/Aspie relationship is pretty much about communication, in my opinion. It's not about one partner not pulling his own weight, or one partner always feeling rejected, and having to live with that. Once it is clear which behaviors are Aspie behaviors, versus which behaviors are just bad relationship behaviors (for any type of NT or differently-abled person), then you can really tackle the situation from a much greater sense of understanding and empathy (on both sides). In other words, being an Aspie does not mean having permission to be rude, insensitive, rejecting or hurtful to your partner on a regular basis. Likewise, being an Nt with an Aspie, does not mean that you can constantly criticize or put blame on your partner for not always understanding "before" they exhibit a certain behavior. But something else I have not seen mentioned is that the intelligence level of an Aspie is often quite high, as is the case with my husband, and he is capable of grasping and retaining way more intricate pieces of information than other NTs. Hence, "I'm not capable of keeping myself from being rude, because I can't understand when I'm being rude" is NOT a very reasonable answer from an Aspie. They DO have the capability of understanding specific behaviors (when explained to them clearly), that they could try and avoid or try to improve on.

And as someone else posted, the failure rate of NT/NT relationships is also extremely high, and many of those failures may be attributable to poor communication between them as well, and the lack of desire of one or both partners to work on such skills (or the relationship in general). As the old saying goes, "where there is a will, there is a way." Just like a business, you're going to get out of it what you put in, and it must be an equal partnership. If one is always taking out, and one is always giving in, it is probably not going to work in the long run. Or at least it will not be a happy relationship even if one or both choose to stay in it.

For the woman who asked the original question, I would like to suggest that there are many positive traits of Aspies that aren't as commonly discussed, and I believe they merit mentioning. It has been my experience (as well, I have read this piece of information in many books written about Asperger's Syndrome and Autisim); loyalty is a trait that can go hand in hand with an Aspie mate. Not all Aspies are monogamous, of course, but I know that my husband can be prided on his high values and tendency toward loyalty when it comes to cheating, or rather not cheating. And I'll stand by that, as I have had plenty of NT boyfriends who did not have that same trait. And the fact that Aspies often do not like change, bodes well for someone like me because I'm not prone to dressing up and changing my appearance on a regular basis. And he likes that just fine (meaning, I don't think he will get bored from being with the same person for a long period of time). Another positive trait is that Aspies can thoroughly enjoy many hobbies that others find boring or even a waste of time. Like ones who drive across the state just to listen to an air raid siren. Having those unusual hobbies tends to place them in a different type of crowd than the typical "Guy Hang Out" kind of places, and that appeals to me as well. They are often very eccentric in an interesting or funny kind of way that I find to be totally charming. And sometimes, not unlike my husband, they are even the "nerd" that you used to wonder, "what is he thinking?" And the best part is that if you want to know what an Aspie man is thinking about, all you have to do is ask him! Not always true with an NT male, however.

So please consider all of the potentially wonderful traits of your Aspie partner before letting someone or some group talk you out of dating him because of his potentially "negative" traits. I love my Aspie man just the way he is - and fortunately for me, he seems to like me exactly the way I am (and not a lot of NT men do). He doesn't try to change me, he's willing to work on our communication together, and he's also my very best friend. So I wish you all the best with your Aspie partner as well! Don't give up on him if he is willing to admit he has a problem in the area of communication, and especially don't give up on him if he is willing and able to work on those issues with you as well.