Optimism and Reality: Goldfish21 Response to me

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**I told goldfish that I would when I was able to to respond to what he said to me. I never got a chance to since the topic was locked. Do not to talk about that topic itself since it was locked but the ideas I have here in response to goldfish accepts as truth. As you all see I don't agree with him on things. Even if the thread was not locked this still deserves its own thread. Hopefully, I'm not breaking any rules by doing this. If I am, please forgive me! Now, on with the show!**

One of the issues I take with positivity, optimism, believe in one self, you can do anything you set your mind to and the whole belief system our American society and others seem to have is this. Reality is absolute, existence exists, existence is primacy and this is an axiom and self-evident. In other words, reality is independent of my hopes, wishes, and dreams. It doesn’t matter what one feels or thinks is true. Optimism, positivity, believing in oneself, you can do anything you set your mind to and this whole belief system as we define today is based upon the idea that consciousness is primacy. Reality itself becomes subject to one’s mind and one’s mind’s whims and reality is but a subjective tapestry of conscious mind. With this sort of thinking logic, facts, and reason don’t exist anymore since reality is based upon the conscious mind. If we extend this sort of thinking to disability if we accept that consciousness is primacy then there is no such thing as disability at all since all one has to do is believe something and with hard work it becomes so. How does any of this even make logical sense? If this whole believe in oneself and this whole can do attitude worked then wouldn’t humanity have rid itself of all of its problems and issues long ago and be in a state of permanent bliss and utopia?

If we accept that reality and existence is primacy then there are truths that exist that are independent of one’s wishes, hopes, beliefs and feelings. It doesn’t matter what one thinks or what one feels. Francis Bacon said “To command nature then one must obey nature.” But, to obey one must understand what one is to obey. If Francis Bacon is correct then to succeed at something one must know and have the inherent ability to succeed plus the perspiration to go at it. In other words, one must look at the nature of oneself and the nature of the reality outside of oneself that one is dealing in. Part of the nature of things is that there are limitations and constraints that exist outside of one’s consciousness mind and thinking. This can be genetics, laws of existence itself like gravity and the unconsciousness thinking that influences one’s conscious thinking. Positivity, optimism and the other things as accepted by our society and others as well seems to have the idea and notion that there are no limitations and constraints.

If reality is absolute and part of that is facts, logic and truth matter more than one’s feelings, hopes and wishes then we must accept that there are limitations and constraints on what we as individuals and as a society can do in given moments in time. If we must accept this to be true then we have to accept the idea that those with disabilities stand a high chance of not being employed whatsoever. Yes, there are exceptions but if one is to evaluate reality using logic and being as objective as possible should one concentrate on exceptions and anomalies only at the expense of the prevailing trend that positivity, optimism and the can do attitude demands we do. If I was a non-disabled parent I would look at these facts and encourage my child to attempt to become an exception and overcome his disability. But, I would also face facts and accept that more than likely he or she will not and make sure I save up a nest egg for them like a dowry, hedge or trust fund. If they did I would be surprised and be proud of them and they would still have this nest egg as well and they would have flexibility and options.

We must accept limitations.....but we must also seek to progress, despite the limitations.

But don't kick yourself in the butt if you happen to fail.

Try again another time.

But to not strive----is to remain static.

True, but we must progress at things that are realistic for us, our nature and the nature outside of ourselves. Let's give an example in athletics. In basketball, the average height is about 6 feet or greater possibly 7 feet. Now, let's say I try out I fail in basketball yet I'm quick wouldn't it be better to give up one's dream of basketball especially if the track team coach wants you to try out on his team. Why wouldn't one give up something for something else? Why keep going at something in which more then likely one will not succeed at and go for the things one will probably succeed at?

Now, I will extend my OP further. Let's say the child growing up the parents followed my advice and he or she had a nest egg. Why couldn't they still do things? Who knows maybe without the hassle of trying to fit into an employment structure maybe they could have a ton of time to becoming the next Einstein or Stephen King.

Point is, if we're going to have optimism and this can do attitude then shouldn't it be based in reality?

We can try all we want, but some people are blessed with more opportunities than others are. Coming from a wealthy family and having connections makes a huge difference in how life turns out for someone.

Some parents can't provide a nest egg for their children especially if the parents were without work due to being laid off from their jobs and had to live off their savings. Some of us don't have extended family to help out either.

Jose Altuve is 5' 6" and a professional baseball player. Most scouts thought he was too short. He was the American League Most Valuable Player for 2017!

https://www.mlb.com/news/giancarlo-stan ... -262040670

True, I understand. And, you're right. Some people may not be able to do that. And, what I said was just one possiblity and I myself labored under certain assumptions. And therein lies the problem of the you can do anything you set your mind to, can do, positive mindset. Because of where it derives its primacy it causes a form of victim blaming.

Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 19 Dec 2017, 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

And, there are exceptions but what is the general trend as of right now?

Most people aren't stupid enough to try to be basketball and baseball players, anyway---especially if they don't make their high school teams.

Most people have more realistic goals----like being employed somewhere, getting out of their parents house, stuff like that. Being able to make a living. That's the goal of most people.

Some people are unable to do the above, for whatever reason. But we don't know unless we try. And we have to make sure we don't kick the butt of people who try and fail. But encourage them to try again. Maybe, say, a couple of years down the road, they would acquire the skills necessary for success.

Of course not! It was an example.



But, maybe sometimes the best thing to do is to quit trying especially if it becomes to much on their physical and/or mental health. But, postivity, optimism, and the can-do attitude doesn't accept this. But, the American dream says anyone can achieve it if they work hard enough and are positive enough. As brutal and backwards ancient Sparta was at least it accepted there were those who would more then likely not be able to make a life in their society. Sparta had a harsh and brutal response to reality. Our society doesn't accept reality. An hell no, I would never want to live in Ancient Sparta. It was a horrible society.

I'm not the inflexible, "American Dream" kind of guy.

I haven't accomplished much myself. I'm at my job 37 years, never been promoted. I'm not exactly "striving" too much. But I am striving to be a better person----always.

My point is.....don't give up the ghost. I'll never give up the ghost. If I see an opening, I'll take it.

Many people, frankly, give up too easily. For various reasons. Some having to do with alleged "statistics" which state that 80% of people with Asperger's are unemployed.

I posted this to goldfish before and I will post it here. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/disabl.nr0.htm

To me, if I had a child with a disability and if I'm interpreting this data right by an agency in the US government would it make sense for my child to expect my child to succeed when the statistics state otherwise? You have a high failure rate with disabilities. Optimism, can-do attitude, positivity says they should try in spite of these odds. But, why would one expect an outcome other then the highest outcome that would more then likely happen?

If the parents were able to then wouldn't it make more sense to well encourage the child while at the same time saving up a nest egg for this child. If everyone or at least the bulk could beat the odds at something then does it not get to where there are no more odds to beat. There would be a high success rate already if the can-do and positive approach actually worked. Why isn't there?

Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 19 Dec 2017, 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't go by statistics. They don't apply to me. They apply to some "model person" who doesn't actually exist. A sort of a "composite." Not individual people. Are there actually 2.3 cars in every garage?

If I went by statistics, I'd still be living with my parents. I still wouldn't have my driver's license. I'd still be an "always alone" virgin. People rely too much on statistics.

I went by "me." I checked out "openings." I used my brains, and I knew my limitations as well.

I'm a clerk, dammit LOL....not an executive. (sort of a satirical take on Dr. McCoy saying "I'm a doctor, dammit......")

Most parents are really not in a position to set up "nest eggs."

Most people live paycheck to paycheck here in the US.

It would be good, though, to set up the nest eggs for those kids with disabilities---should the ability be present.

"Hope for the best, prepare for the worst"

Thats how I think. You should still try to over come limitations and find ways around them. But also you should respect them and prepare for what will happen if you don't succeed.

I think this also personally comes down to the kinda person you are. My boyfriend sets his hopes very low, so he can be surprised when he exceeds them, I am an 'aim for the stars' kind of person. Each way has its own pro's and con's but believe whatever works for you. The way you cope with life and its realities is down to you, as long as it doesn't have a negative impact on anyone else .

This is a pretty concise summary of my random responsive thoughts to the post above as I read it.

Sure, physical limits in reality exist.. but that doesn't stop me from Trying & improving. Besides, I can say with certainty that I haven't ever even come close to hitting the limits of the physical Universe, and probably haven't come close to my own personal limits except maybe a few times I've really pushed myself. My limits keep changing as I do, anyways. I get stronger, I can do more. As I get older, maybe my limits are reduced by age. Either way I'm going to at least push myself and Try.

For the most part, philosophizing about the limitations imposed on us by "reality" (or the Universe or w/e) is an exercise that accomplishes very little compared to taking action and spending time and energy on working towards something or building yourself up. Even if it's just a little time spent daily. Example: I workout, but not for hours on end. I should do other exercises more, but the one thing I consistently do pretty much every single day w/o fail unless I'm too sick or injured etc is pushups. I do at least 111/day, sometimes 138, other times I've randomly done more but w/e my point is I spend less than 3 minutes cranking out a couple sets of pushups every day and over the last few years I've done what's got to be around 200,000+ now. Bit by bit consistent persistent hard work pays off and I'm stronger (and better looking) for it. I could have spent that 3 minutes a day thinking about all the reasons the Universe' limits are stacked against me and I'm just meant to be fat and out of shape so should accept it.. but I didn't. I thought, "Hey, I can do better than this & no one can stop me - not even me. All I have to do is do it." And so I did. And now I'm better for it. Same with running, kiteboarding, & other physical things I've gotten better at. Same with focusing on work, finances, mental health, learning etc etc. -> How you do anything is how you do everything, after all.

I didn't just decide to change my mindset and one day was like this. What I did do is try to fill my head with a lot of positivity by reading about positive thinking/personal growth etc a fair bit. However, even with this knowledge I was still horribly depressed. It wasn't until 5-6 years ago at my mental & physical health rock bottom when I discovered the biochemical causes of my anxiety/depression (and ASD/other symptoms) going haywire and was able to deal with them via diet & natural (not pharmaceutical) medicines. I changed, so my reality & everything I'm capable of changed. Once I turned that corner there was no looking back. Sure, I have my ups and downs of life, symptoms, finances, whatever.. but the general trend is up, Up, UP! I was in terrible shape all around & financially in debt way over my head then bankrupt, now I'm in good health, strong shape, my account balances continue to rise, my present is always pretty good & my future looks fantastic now that I have set some next to impossible stretch goals to work my ass off towards accomplishing over the next decade or so.

I've become one of those people that has the mindset that since over the last 5 years I've done a LOT of things that USED TO BE impossible, that I never want to stop doing what used to be impossible for me.. I don't want to get comfortably complacent and think "well, life's okay.. this is it - stop progressing, you've made it.. reached your limits & those of the Universe around you." Nope. There is always bigger/better/more. I do Not mean Greed, either. Just continuous improvement. I didn't work as hard as I have on myself to reach some point and then just stop! It's about the journey, not the destination. It's about the process. Enjoying the struggle & pushing myself to continue doing ever better things with my time, energy, life, money, and last but certainly not least - abilities. I have certain aspects of how my brain and memory work due to ASD that can be applied to tremendously valuable things in our society & economy, and aspirations to do some of them. So, I'll carry on apprenticing the construction trade I've started in on, but the plan is to now use it to finance my next academic education and push myself to see if I can make the grade step by step to justify carrying on. Baby steps, though, right now I'm in the process of decluttering my life to make way for progress on these new goals in the new year.

Hell, I got it tattooed FFS. Seriously. A little over a month ago I got my first tattoo. I'm still waiting for a stupid skin rash to clear up before I can get it touched up and finished (cleaned up/touched up, more white ink etc), but anyways.. for the first of my tattoos I decided to do my left wrist to distract from a work accident scar that looks like a suicide attempt. When people see the scar they assume I tried to kill myself & think of death. So, I decided to get imagery of things that make me feel alive - water/sunshine - wind, waves, & sun kind of thing. Japanese wave style art is what I like best so went with the Asian sunburst style Sun, too, annnnd on to my point with the Japanese theme is that I decided to have the Kanji for Kaizen tattooed on my inner left wrist. In business and industrial engineering it's a Japanese philosophy of "Continuous process improvement." There's always a better way (method/process) figure it out, implement it, then find the new next better way and do that, rinse & repeat forever. In general it means "change for the better," and the literal translation is "good change." I've read that some Asians (mainland Chinese) interpret a Kaizen tattoo as you having been to jail and decided to reform your life and do good so some may assume you're a badass lol w/e. Anyways, it's permanently on the inside of my left wrist & even though it's not quite complete yet, it serves it's purpose to remind me to keep moving forward w/ ever better everything I can manage to influence in my life. I've applied the teachings to my health & medicine, too. And those of Goldratt's Theory of Constraints. Figure out what the constraint is & how to manage it/remove it, deal with it etc - I was not going to live a life of negativity, depression, and anxiety. I gave myself no choice but to figure out how to rid myself of that state of mind & health, learned, took action & DID (that's the important part) and now here I am infinitely better off for it and carrying on onwards & upwards. This tattoo will remind me to continue living that philosophy. When I slip and have a bad day or week, get sick, feel weak, feel like giving up or like my efforts aren't getting me anywhere.. all I have to do is look down to this mark and be reminded that it's a continuous process, there is no stopping, sometimes there are setbacks along the way but you've got to just keep moving and you'll get through this temporary frustration and come out the other side bigger, better, faster, stronger, healthier, wealthier, wiser and so on for it - just as you have in the past, you'll continue to so long as you stay the course. Sure, there is reality to contend with.. winds of change.. storms are going to happen but it's all about how you set your sails & change course, roll with the waves, Hell blast straight through the eye of the storm if that's the most exhilarating way through! Just don't concede defeat and sit around waiting for your boat to sink because "reality" got a little tough to deal with.

But it is. For everyone. Do you think that optimistic can do attitude people who've achieved whatever success they have in their lives live in some alternate reality co-existing on your planet Earth? No. They are firmly planted in the same reality as you. Their perception of it is just different based on their thoughts and reactions to it and themselves.