Autism supremacy and evolution

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I've noticed on this website, there seems to be a belief among members that having an autism spectrum disorder is evolutionary part of the brain. I don't buy into that BS. First of all, autism is neurological disorder, it interferes with life. Second, most people with ASD struggle with making friends and finding partners. Divorce rate among those who are married is very high, higher than among NTs, 80% vs 50%. It's not uncommon for people with AS to be rude and inconsiderate. People with ASD struggle with getting and keeping jobs, so its not uncommon for them to rely on family and government. Some on WP seem to think that they are smarter and that others should bend over to suit their needs. Sometimes I think some people need to grow up and realize and life is unfair and that they need to make some changes in order to function better in society. I am not saying everyone is like that, but some are.

Ok, I'm done ranting.

It's just BS throw forth by people who don't have the first notion about what evolution is, or how it works.

Are you trying to troll us? Because I'm pretty sure you're trying to troll us, and that's not cool.

And yeah, Aspie supremacy is unscientific. What actually makes a species stronger is genetic diversity--that is, having the AS genes, and the NT genes, and everything in between, and all the wide variety of human minds and bodies that our gene pool can produce. Diversity means there'll always be people with the specific traits that can address any problem our species may face. Homogeneity, however "strong" the genes seem, is always weaker in the end because circumstances change and a species has to be flexible.

I happen to think you are wrong, AS is not a disease, it is a Neurological difference. The only part of AS that could be considered a "disability" is impaired social skills. Asperger's is not something that you choose to have, you are born with it and you will die with it. The only reason that we come off as rude and inconsiderate is because of our impaired social skills and our problems expressing emotions. Aspergians may have difficulties in some aspects of life, but we learn to accept those difficulties and transcend them with time.

Nowhere in the post did I say that AS is a disease, I said that it was a disorder. Neurological disorder because of Neurological difference. I'm well aware that Aspergers is something one is born with as I'm on the spectrum myself. AS is not just impaired social skills. If it was, probably 50% of people will be diagnosed as having AS (shyness is an impairement of social skills, one could say). It also impairs communication and often times people with AS have sensory issues (like I do). I'm starting to be more comfortable with myself, but Aspergers is listed in DSM for a reason. I'm very high functioning, but lets face it. There are a lot of people on the spectrum who struggle. Some people with Aspergers don't bother to improve and use it as an excuse to be an as*hole. I can totally understand why some people think that its just a different way of thinking, but its not true to everyone. Not everyone on WP is glad that they are autistic. Plenty of people who have never visited WP feel the same. Personally I think its both a disability and different way of thinking, so I'm not totally disagreeing with you.

Anyone who thinks that autistics will either be exterminated by NTs or will exterminate NTs by virtue of evolution either doesn't know how evolution works or is privvy to some statistics I don't have access to. As far as I know, both groups' populations are roughly stable, so neither group is being pushed towards extinction. They're both capable of surviving and thus, as far as nature is concerned, are both fit to survive.

The rate of human natural selection must have greatly dimished since people who would die rapidly in nature now don't due to medicine.

If Leo Kanner never though that autism was a disorder than it would never have a name to it. And then Hans Asperger wouldn't think to say the group of boys he studied as having 'autistic psychopathy.' So if AS wasn't a disorder it wouldn't exist. The symptoms would still exist and you would feel as confused as you were before you were diagnosed, either officially or self diagnosed.
But since it is a disorder you can act all defiant about how it's just a difference. People don't get diagnosed for differences. They get diagnosed because they are struggling with something and the diagnoses opens up possibilities of support for them.
AS can be a whole lot more impairing than just social skills. Meltdowns and shutdowns are not always caused by poor social skills. Wanting everything to be the same is not a positive trait.

Anyway, feel free to live in your deluded world. Oh shucks, so much for me trying not to insult people.

The problem with "autistic supremacy" is that it conflates something that is true into an ideology. It is true that the autistic does not function well in the social environment created by an overwhelmingly NT world and that there is nothing on the order of a natural law that says our culture MUST be organized this way. And so it follows that an autistic would function better in a different social environment, one that was created by on overwhelmingly autistic world. The problem is that no such world exists. So it is nothing more than idle speculation. It's not even a worthy goal because it presumes that a population of just autistics would be able to survive and there is no objective way to even evaluate this. In fact, objectively, the issues with sensory overload, executive dysfunction, communication and other very common traits of autism all suggest a pure autistic culture would not be viable.

I tend towards thinking that autism is a "free radical" variant, both destructive and creative, one that exists on the edges, but actually serves a purpose and hence has not been eliminated via natural selection. The atypical perceptions and processing of an autistic can produce innovative ideas, pushing the edges of our culture and understanding into new directions, directions perhaps not even considered by the NT world. But this variance carries a price - in order to have the few, highly innovative, high functioning individuals that push these boundaries, we have to accept the cost of those on the spectrum that need assistance in simple day to day functioning. It doesn't surprise me that autism has not been removed from the gene pool. It injects diversity into the system, albeit at a steep price. I suspect that NTs and autistics need each other for a robust world. Eliminating autism would diminish the world, even if not eliminating it carries a cost.

If you prick us, do we not bleed?
if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison
us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not
revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will
resemble you in that.

--- Merchant of Venice ---

ruveyn

Now this is going to be a generalization, so just bear with me. I fully realize there are exceptions to this observation. NTs are successful as politicians, world leaders, and businessmen. They are superior to spectrumites in this particular aspect of culture (don't worry, I know there are exceptions). However, aspies can be superior in the exploratory and creative fields. They question things that NTs take for granted. The result is calculus, Newton's laws, and classical music. Everyone, NT or spectrumite, has their talents. As Einstein said, "if you judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree, it will spend it's whole life believing that it is stupid." In my personal life, I believe I'm worse than NTs at many things, but I'm also better than NTs in other aspects.

What type of person do you think would rub two sticks together ad nauseum, just to see if anything would happen? Do you think the social butterfly would waste time doing such a thing? Also, do you think a highly social person would ever think about why things fall? It seems to me a highly social person wouldn't even consider spending valuable time on either of these activities. To do these things, you need to have an eccentric brain. Every aspie here has an eccentric brain, though not everyone of us has the self-esteem and motivation to make the most of it.

Of course some people on WP think that everyone else should cave to meet their needs, but this has nothing to do with your argument. I certainly believe that every aspie has the ability to learn social functioning skills. Yes, some aspies here need to make some changes. Some of us are also happy living life without a behemoth of a social network. I have social functioning skills that help me with my job and my education, but I would never want more than a few good friends. Lucky for me, I do have three loyal friends. AS only interferes with life if you let it. Sure people here experience meltdowns, but is this really an excuse to be miserable? I grew up with a quadriplegic sister, and surely dealing with seizure medication, or not being able to feed yourself and go to the bathroom, can certainly contend with sensory overload. Yet she has a positive outlook on life. I live by her example and I refuse to feel sorry for myself.

Last edited by rabidmonkey4262 on 20 Apr 2011, 10:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

My oldest grandson has asked me why fire is hot ...

Gotta go find some sticks ...

That's a great question. You can use his curiosity to help him delve into kinetic energy and how it relates to temperature measurement and entropy. If he takes advantage of that curiosity he'll be a thermochemistry specialist in no time.

I have forwarded your post to his mother ...!

I totally agree that people shouldn't feel sorry for themselves because of AS. If I catch myself doing it, I try to step back and evaluate my life and figure out what I can do to make me happier. What I'm not sure about is that we all have the ability to learn social functioning skills. I've spent quite a few years trying to figure it out, and all I've managed to do is form a larger collection of stock responses. I still can't answer if someone asks me an unexpected question. I so wish I could learn how to do that. It would certainly improve my income potential.

Anyway, I quoted the above, because it made me think of this group of friends I once had. I loved them, because they were all brilliant, totally nerdy, and would have the most interesting conversations (as opposed to the pointless boring ones most people seem to have). I would definitely consider them to be the type of people who would try and consider those things above. Some of them were CalTechers. But the thing is, they were very social. They were constantly going out, having parties, etc. I loved these guys, and I still managed to lose them all as friends. *Sigh*

Well I don't think that Aspergers is necessarily a disease. I do think that it is nature experimenting a little bit. With that said, it is about survival of the fittest. I am not so sure that us Aspies are fit enough. The reality of it is that a lot of us are socially crippled in life, to the extent that we have to live off of the sympathy of society. But it is not about who you are or what you have. It is about what you do. Some Aspies have been very successful (Newton, Einstein, Robison). At the same time, there are a lot of Aspies who struggle in life. There is the same variation with NTs. I do think though, that society can work better and allow everyone to make their contributions to society in their own ways.