Asperger's independance from Autism.

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On this independance day I want people to consider that Asperger's Syndrome should be independant of Autism. As much as you want to bully or insist Asperger's isn't different from Autism, people with Asperger's Syndrome don't have many of the physical symptoms of Autism. That is why Asperger's people need different support.

Go ahead and attack me. I liked it when I could go to a support group without worrying about someone's mother making a playdate for me with their son, and gulit tripping me for saying no. When I could go to a group and not worry about blatant harassment from people desperate to not be incels.

Asperger's people understand you don't behave that way. Everyone is told they must understand and tolerate negative behaviors from Autistic people. Dislike this? Then start a culture of accountability. Say no this behavior is unacceptable period. It will improve how people view Autistic people, where they view them now as people who are incapable of self control and understanding of what is and isn't appropriate behavior.

It's not just me.
http://timetolisten.blogspot.com/2017/0 ... r.html?m=1

Please try to secure independance for everyone on the spectrum, by not holding them hostage to the behavior of those less capable.

But it’s not different. Autism is a SPECTRUM.

I really think that lower functioning autistic folks deserve the same respect as those of us who are higher functioning.

I agree. The traits of Asperger's is fairly well defined. Those with Asperger's share a very high number of traits with other Aspies. I do not see a spectrum within Asperger. On the other hand there are very distinct physical differences between an Asperger brain and those who are Autistic.

If you are ever going to solve the difficulties that Aspies face it is important to recognize this distinction and not mix apples with oranges.

There's a massive spectrum within Asperger's:
-To what degree do you have social issues?
-Do you have sensory issues? To what degree?
-Are you dependent on routines? To what degree?
-Do you have fixated interests? To what degree?
-Do you have repetitive behaviours? To what degree? How hard is it for you to control them?

That just covers the direct diagnostic criteria. There's also the tertiary traits that many people with Asperger's have, but are not part of the diagnostic criteria that people might have to varying degrees.

Currently, in the parts of the world that use DSM-5, ASD is defined as level 1, level 2, or level 3. But really, that's very, very course grained. Within each level, there's a very broad subspectrum, which really shouldn't even be thought of as a line, because people have each trait to a different degree.

That said, taking the average of all traits, I think ASD is essentially rounded to the nearest whole number:
-0.1 to 0.4 would get no diagnosis, but might be Broad Autism Phenotype.
-0.5 to 1.4 would be diagnosed as level 1 (a.k.a. Asperger's)
-1.5 to 2.4 would be diagnosed as level 2
-2.5 and up would be diagnosed as level 3

I don't really care whether we call Aspergers's and Autism two different diagnoses (ICD-10), or whether we call it a single diagnosis with three different levels (DSM-5). But very definitely, even if we do call it two different diagnoses, there very much is a subspectrum within each diagnosis.

Thank you! Things have changed a lot from when you'd get screamed at about superiority. It's a matter of different needs not being adressed because Autism parents didn't like that people with Asperger's were more accepted. So they demanded they were considered Autistic in hopes of using them to gain acceptance. They just drug everyone down. No one can acheive unless everyone acheives equally. It's poisonous.

It's not like apples and oranges. That would be like comparing autism and diabetes. It's not even like gala apples vs honeycrisp apples. That would be like comparing autism and adhd. It's more like look at all the individual apples growing on one gala apple tree. Some apples have different shades, some are different sizes, some are differing levels of ripeness, some have holes from birds, some have more leaves than others, some have already fallen off the tree. Different issues, same apple.

You have Princess Syndrome.

You sound like you've had some kind of bad experience. Whatever that experience was isn't everybody.

I love your comparison. It’s spot on.

I'm very angry at this thread. You Aspies feel dragged down by people like me with an autism diagnosis?


Aspies as I see them here have no negative feelings about those of who are lower functioning.

I have never gone to such meetups (but have considered doing so recently? would you otherwise recommend?); I think the problems that are described in the blog OP linked seem quite possible. If men do that regularly at such meetups, it's definitely wrong but I can understand why they might be driven to feel desperate enough to do so. That being said, OP is correct that it isn't her job to solve everyone's problems (just to respect them as much as is reasonable). I posit that these same problems extend to women at any "meetups" of people in general (don't really go to those either), and it isn't autism that is necessarily to blame for such behavior. I also humbly disagree with your notion that Aspies are inherently superior to other people on the Spectrum (or anyone else for that matter).

It is horrible that some of these Autism "support" groups think support means having female members be cum dumpsters for male members. But the issue is not a matter of science but of the all too often of haphazard organization and moderation of these support groups. Stage 1 cancer requires very different support/treatment then stage 4, total cancer differing treatments the brain cancer but all are cancer.

Aspergers is not likely to come back as a separate diagnosis. The ICD is in the process of getting rid of the Aspergers and now the whole Hans Asperger was complicit with the Nazis revelations means Aspergers is that much less likely to come back.

I repeat the advice I gave you a few weeks ago
You need to leave "Autism" communities for "Autistic” or "Aspie" communities. “Autism” communities are mainly for parents of kids on the spectrum. Aspie/Autistic communities are for us and are often run partially or completely by us. I noticed you are from the Chicago area. As a major metropolitan area, there is a decent likelihood they exist in your area. If not there are people here who have organized Aspie/Autistic communities and would be glad to advise you on how to do this.

So you're a bad Aspie if you desire more from life, a good Aspie if you submit to the limitations others impose upon you?

This is a major part of the issue people have with Autistic people. You cannot tell them no without them lashing out in a fury of demanding acceptance. Everyone has to accept Autistic people, if they don't you will make them. How has that been working. People avoiding you because it seems any boundaries held with you are met with a screaming attack, instead of understanding.

It's insisting you have the right to control everyone because you have Autism. People tend not to be around people who create a full scene at being told no, this bothers me, this makes me anxious. Only to be screamed at with, "I HAVE AUTISM, YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT ME!" Even going as far as to ruin people's lives by stigmatizing them as ableist.

This is why people make fun of Autistic people, why they don't accept Autistic peolle. They think it's okay to act in a way that would be seen intolerable in a NT, and instead of showing concern for how it may affect others, or making progress to work on it. They demand acceptance, anything else is forcing them to be NT.

People don't want to be around people that are negative, who act hostile to anything that isn't "Feel free to stim and make noises!" We were making progress under Asperger's Syndrome. Then we were bullied for having superiority fir that. Then eliminated.

No one can have anything unless everyone has everything. No one can succeed unless everyone succeeds. If you ask for support but say you want it without lower functioning Autistic people, you get bullied. Bullying acceptance from people doesn't work.

I shouldn't have had to threaten suicide because I couldn't tolerate one more Autism support group with people demanding I understand, emotionally abusing me if I said no. Everyone said don't go. Now you have isolated Asperger's people because every support group is catering to people who act like children, and will screech if you don't like it.

I knew I'd get bullied over this. I thought I'd at least try. Seems only people who get support are good Aspies who submit to the control and demands of Autistic people. The ones who want support for people like them, guess they'll just be punished for that.

Sorry, I am not here to offend anyone. Aspies have been shredded through a meat grinder. In most cases, Aspies are not the doctor working on a cure or a means of remediation. They are the patient. It is not that we feel that the term autism is dragging us down. It is that we are stumbling around in the dark trying to find relief. And the relief offer thus far is somewhat ineffective. We are seeking the exact cause of the distress. Because if we can determine this with great detail, we can find relief.

By studying the exact traits exhibited by Aspies, we can look for anomalies. The study of anomalies is the key in my opinion.

In a way that is what I am saying. Aspies have traits in common: social issues, sensory issues, routines, fixated interests, repetitive behaviors. Therefore if you can understand why some Aspies suffer by these to different degrees than others, then you can look for the anomalies, the ones that have remediated the condition and use those approaches to help the rest of the Aspie tribe.

I spent my school years in schools for students with autism. And I was always in a minority of oranges among a majority of apples. Those with moderate to severe autism were in the minority and there was a fairly distinctive line drawn between us and them. With us there's nothing undetectable or that can be masked. The autism is blatantly glaringly obvious. And the accommodations required are significant. There is certainly a similarly and common ground. But there's also a distinctive difference between the two in my experience.

@LavenderLilac I'm not sure what you mean by physical difference.