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jimmy m
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26 Aug 2018, 2:31 pm

I will be turning 70 in a few days, which makes me an Old Timer. And over the course of my life, I have learned a few important observations about my tribe, the Aspies. When I was young I was bullied something fierce and even today I still retain these invisible scars from those days. Those scars helped shape me, the person I was to become. Bullying is almost an Aspie trait. Aspies bear the brunt of bullying. It peaks in Aspie males in the Junior High School years and in Aspie females in the High School years. “Why are Aspies bullied?” This is a critical core question.

We share many traits with animals. There are physical traits such as the fact that humans and animals generally have two eyes, a nose, two ears, a mouth, etc. But we also share behavior traits. Two important traits that humans possess are herd traits and tribe traits. In order to understand the why of bullying, one need only study the tribe traits of animals.

As species evolved some animals (for example primates) began to exhibit social traits. Social animals in a hierarchic community have been observed exhibiting the following structure:

The highest-ranking individual is sometimes designated as the Alpha Male. Alpha animals usually gain preferential access to food and other desirable items or activities. Alphas may achieve their status by superior physical strength and aggression. The individual with alpha status sometimes changes, often through a fight between the dominant and a subordinate animal. These fights are often to the death, depending on the animal.

Beta Male animals often act as second-in-command to the reigning alpha. They will replace a dead or unfit alpha and become the next alpha.

Omega Males are referred to as the lowest caste of the hierarchical society. Omega animals are subordinate to all others in the community, and are expected by others in the group to remain submissive to everyone. Omega animals may also be used as communal scapegoats or outlets for frustration, or given the lowest priority when food is distributed.

This structure is also exhibited in tribes of humans. Humans form into societal groups called gangs. A gang is led by an Alpha Male (otherwise known as the bully) and his lieutenants, Beta Males. Generally this tribe encompasses the entire school class because the other members of the tribe participate as soldiers in the gang or as silent eyewitnesses. The leadership of the gang is determined by brute force. An Aspie fills the role of an Omega Male, a communal scapegoat.

One of the interesting observations about school bullying is that generally for males it peaks in the Junior High School years. What makes the timing of that phase interesting and special? It is because males are transitioning into puberty at that age.

In primates, Alpha Males often gain preferential access to sex or mates and as a result to reproduction and offspring. In humans, this bullying is part of thinning out the herd just prior to the mating age. It either mentally cripples males for the rest of their life or causes them to become loners and leave the tribe.

Once abuse and torture enters the picture, do not expect the child to advance any further along the stages of natural childhood development. Once you drive a turtle back into its shell in fear, don’t expect it to come out anytime soon. Aspies exhibit paralyzing fear, afraid of sticking their head out of their shell, because they don’t know what they did wrong to have their peer group turn on them, even their best friends, with great meanness pushing them out of their tribe.


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26 Aug 2018, 7:23 pm

The reason why I don't hold any ill-will towards my school bullies is purely because of what you said. At the end of the day we are animals and as such we do have a lot of herd and tribalistic traits.

I was bullied because of my extremely slow rate of development, both physically and mentally (emotionally/socially). I was actually bullied by people YOUNGER than myself as well as the same age and older by both boys and girls. At the age of 15 I was still reading fiction books for 7-10 year olds and 11-12 year olds, obviously I thought this was normal until I started getting picked on when other kids saw me reading them.
I had a singular friend during school, he happened to be a bit more outgoing than myself so I ended up in a small friendship group because of him. I could have definitely lived without them, in fact I frequently wished they'd just stop talking to me as it was too much mental effort to socialise with them, needless to say I ended up the omega of that friendship group. I was the subject of ridicule and exclusion within this friendship group, naturally I vanished from their lives as soon as my school years ended as I had zero interest in any of them as people and it seemed like the feeling was mutual.

Now as a 23 year old I avoid people, I don't have friends nor do I want them. It takes too much effort for me to wrap my head around the way most people are. I think due to my child and adolescent years of being bullied I'm pretty much unbulliable now, not only because nothing anyone says remotely affects me but I no longer feel any kind of need to blend into a crowd for survival plus I also have the physical stature to stand up for myself now, unlike my school years.
I'm also a lot more self assured than I was as an underdeveloped teen, though I still wouldn't say I'm where I should be, developmentally, for my age.



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27 Aug 2018, 3:09 am

It’s fairly easy to understand once you accept that there’s nothing more disgusting in the world than weakness, and that people can and will judge you without caring whether you had a choice on what they’re judging you by.


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27 Aug 2018, 7:06 am

I have been both bullied and a bully. The latter I deeply regret. I don’t think bullying is due to one singular reason, instead there are often multiple contributing factors. Personally, I acted out and hurt the ones that I cared about because at the time I didn’t possess the emotional capability to accurately convey my feelings in a healthy manner. Anger and frustration frequently took control of me and I wasn’t sure how to deal with that. Bottling up my emotions only made it worse as I found myself exploding unexpectedly when I didn’t mean to.

To give you an example, I was friends with a girl but I often felt conflicted about our friendship because she would defend this boy who was physically bullying me at the time, and would take his side. As such, I felt betrayed and confused. She would also take sides with this girl that was psychologically bullying me, so even more hurt feelings ensued.

When I think about it, a simple conversation would’ve saved us a lot of time, but due to my experiences I thought that I had to ignore my feelings and hope that they’d go away instead of address them. That’s what I thought it meant to be tough, I was wrong. Suppressing my emotions just made them unstable. I didn’t feel in control of myself anymore and that was terrifying.

She understood this and wanted to help me curb my anger, and sometimes I would self-harm because I hated myself for my behaviour and thought that I deserved to be hurt/punished, but didn’t know how to stop because acting out was all that I knew leading to a rather unhealthy cycle. Unfortunately, it was a difficult situation to navigate but that doesn’t excuse my behaviour.

I didn’t act this way to ensure that some kind of hericary was maintained, rather I just felt frustrated at her and wanted to scream “How dare you take their side? Don’t you care about me? I thought we were friends! He hurts me everyday, so much that it’s painful whenever I walk and yet you defend him? Why? As for that girl, she makes me wish that no one could see me or that I just could stop existing! I feel depressed, angry, frustrated, hurt, confused, but I feel as though I’m supposed to pretend that everything is absolutely fine because I’m supposed to be tough, responsible and selfless due to the fact that our teachers are neglecting us so much that sometimes we’re expected to do their jobs and look after the younger years who often go unsupervised otherwise no one would and that makes me feel stressed out beyond belief, I worry that I won’t get there in time one day and one of the kids will accidently kill or hurt themselves with some spare rope lying around or something. I just want to be a child for once, I’m only ten years old and I shouldn’t have to deal with all this!”. :x :cry:

Damn, getting into the mindset of my ten year old self again felt intense. 8O

Trying to ignore my emotions led to becoming the exact same person I hated. A bully. I know that sometimes when I tell people about my experience they reply saying that it's completely understandable that I acted this way, and sure it explains it but in no way does it justify my actions. Shame that I didn’t have a therapist at the time that was actually helpful, instead I had a woman have a mental breakdown and call me worthless, who told me that I’d never amount to anything. I internalised her words for many years. Took a long time to learn how to open up to people again and cope with being bullied and my anger issues. :(


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jimmy m
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27 Aug 2018, 8:25 am

Lost_dragon wrote:
I have been both bullied and a bully. The latter I deeply regret. I don’t think bullying is due to one singular reason, instead there are often multiple contributing factors. Personally, I acted out and hurt the ones that I cared about because at the time I didn’t possess the emotional capability to accurately convey my feelings in a healthy manner. Anger and frustration frequently took control of me and I wasn’t sure how to deal with that. Bottling up my emotions only made it worse as I found myself exploding unexpectedly when I didn’t mean to.
(


One of the common reactions against bullying or being betrayed is anger. You are reacting to being attacked. This is a common trait for Aspies and NTs alike.

I was subjected to unrelenting torture for 3 years as a male Aspie. Teasing and Bullying – Those terms are very understated. The term teasing and bullying are terms developed to protect the abusers. They minimize the offense. A more accurate phrase is cruel and relentless torture. In adult society, the terms used are physical abuse, psychological abuse, and assault and they are criminal offenses.

* Bullies are very adept at what they do. It is almost like they took a course in the subject.

* They instinctively recognize those that are weak, alone and defenseless, venerable individuals. If you have one friend, they will sometime drive that single friend away from you before they begin their regiment of bullying.

* They know where in the playground or inside the school, they can strike outside the view of authorities.

* They know how to inflict the maximum amount of pain without leaving visible marks as evidence [such as a jab to the ribcage, a kick to the nuts, or a chokehold].

* Many times they operate as a group, a gang.

* They know about the unwritten rules such as the “Code of Silence” and the “Never Snitch”. They enforce these rules to silence witnesses.

* They form into groups with lieutenants and soldiers.

* In a conflict it is always about the one (the victim) verses the many (the gang).

* You show up armed only with your fists to protect yourself, while they might show up armed to the teeth. Any fight is rarely fought on a level playing field and the conclusions are rarely left up to chance.

* And in the aftermath of the physical and verbal attack, it is always the word of the many (the gang), combined with the silence of the eyewitnesses (unwritten code of silence) against the word of the one (the victim).

* Bullies choose to torment individuals away from the eyes of authorities. So the location of the fight was well hidden – not only by location they had chosen but also by the crowd of spectators that formed.


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27 Aug 2018, 8:35 am

I remember being picked on because I was a loner most of the time. Not that I didn’t talk to people. I naturally drifted away from the loud bully kinda people and would talk with the silent people who were also friendly.

We had a huge group - a few of us that didn’t like the other bullies. We kept to ourselves.

Later when I got married to my ex- husband who I didn’t know was a school bully. He mentioned it to me after we started drifting apart. He said that it’s weird when people don’t talk. And more reason to picked on.

(I have a slight overdose of my meds today and have mental confusion. Hence my language might me a bit off)


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Last edited by Pjscrab on 27 Aug 2018, 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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27 Aug 2018, 8:49 am

jimmy m wrote:
I will be turning 70 in a few days, which makes me an Old Timer. And over the course of my life, I have learned a few important observations about my tribe, the Aspies. When I was young I was bullied something fierce and even today I still retain these invisible scars from those days. Those scars helped shape me, the person I was to become. Bullying is almost an Aspie trait. Aspies bear the brunt of bullying. It peaks in Aspie males in the Junior High School years and in Aspie females in the High School years. “Why are Aspies bullied?” This is a critical core question.

We share many traits with animals. There are physical traits such as the fact that humans and animals generally have two eyes, a nose, two ears, a mouth, etc. But we also share behavior traits. Two important traits that humans possess are herd traits and tribe traits. In order to understand the why of bullying, one need only study the tribe traits of animals.

As species evolved some animals (for example primates) began to exhibit social traits. Social animals in a hierarchic community have been observed exhibiting the following structure:

The highest-ranking individual is sometimes designated as the Alpha Male. Alpha animals usually gain preferential access to food and other desirable items or activities. Alphas may achieve their status by superior physical strength and aggression. The individual with alpha status sometimes changes, often through a fight between the dominant and a subordinate animal. These fights are often to the death, depending on the animal.

Beta Male animals often act as second-in-command to the reigning alpha. They will replace a dead or unfit alpha and become the next alpha.

Omega Males are referred to as the lowest caste of the hierarchical society. Omega animals are subordinate to all others in the community, and are expected by others in the group to remain submissive to everyone. Omega animals may also be used as communal scapegoats or outlets for frustration, or given the lowest priority when food is distributed.

This structure is also exhibited in tribes of humans. Humans form into societal groups called gangs. A gang is led by an Alpha Male (otherwise known as the bully) and his lieutenants, Beta Males. Generally this tribe encompasses the entire school class because the other members of the tribe participate as soldiers in the gang or as silent eyewitnesses. The leadership of the gang is determined by brute force. An Aspie fills the role of an Omega Male, a communal scapegoat.

One of the interesting observations about school bullying is that generally for males it peaks in the Junior High School years. What makes the timing of that phase interesting and special? It is because males are transitioning into puberty at that age.

In primates, Alpha Males often gain preferential access to sex or mates and as a result to reproduction and offspring. In humans, this bullying is part of thinning out the herd just prior to the mating age. It either mentally cripples males for the rest of their life or causes them to become loners and leave the tribe.

Once abuse and torture enters the picture, do not expect the child to advance any further along the stages of natural childhood development. Once you drive a turtle back into its shell in fear, don’t expect it to come out anytime soon. Aspies exhibit paralyzing fear, afraid of sticking their head out of their shell, because they don’t know what they did wrong to have their peer group turn on them, even their best friends, with great meanness pushing them out of their tribe.

Because we are different it's just that simple. You're really overthinking this. It's natural for people to hate those who are different than them. Not even aspies are immune to that.


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jimmy m
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27 Aug 2018, 9:40 am

Pieplup wrote:
Because we are different it's just that simple. You're really overthinking this. It's natural for people to hate those who are different than them. Not even aspies are immune to that.


Bullying is a factor in the development of many Aspie males and also many Aspie females. They carry the scars with them the rest of their lives.

Quoting a Forbes article:

Despite the growing awareness, bullying is still common in schools these days. Some kids are bullied and some bully others. But, as a new study finds, kids with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) may have an even harder time with bullying, being many times more likely than their neurotypical siblings to have experienced it in their lifetimes.

The new study, from Kennedy Krieger’s Interactive Autism Network, surveyed families with autistic and non-autistic siblings from all over the country, asking about their experience with bullying in the past and present. Almost two-thirds of autistic children had been bullied at some point in their lives, and they were three times more likely than neurotypical kids to be bullied in the past three months.

The three most common types of bullying were verbal, or, in other words, psychological in nature: "being teased, picked on, or made fun of" (73%); "being ignored or left out of things on purpose" (51%), and "being called bad names" (47%). But almost a third of autistic children also experienced physical bullying – being shoved, pushed, slapped, hit, or kicked.

Oddly, when the team broke down bullying as a function of the different types of autism (Asperger syndrome, autism, and “other ASD”), they found that children with Asperger syndrome were actually the most bullied group.


Why Autistic Children Are Bullied More -- And Bully In Return


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27 Aug 2018, 10:55 am

Pieplup wrote:
Because we are different it's just that simple. You're really overthinking this.


At your age, if my parents caught me talking like that to a seventy-year-old man, I'm not sure they'd rein in the urge to slap my face so hard you could still make out the red silhouette of their fingers on my cheek a week later.


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27 Aug 2018, 11:52 am

jimmy m wrote:
One of the common reactions against bullying or being betrayed is anger. You are reacting to being attacked. This is a common trait for Aspies and NTs alike.


I think there’s an important difference. I naïvely expected to be just left alone, because that’s what the adults said we had to do. In contrast, I never saw any signs that any other kid bought into this stupid premise; they were well aware from the beginning that they needed to rely on their ability to fight one way or another to earn respect. And by respect I mean simply lack of aggression.

jimmy m wrote:
I was subjected to unrelenting torture for 3 years as a male Aspie. Teasing and Bullying – Those terms are very understated. The term teasing and bullying are terms developed to protect the abusers. They minimize the offense.


And what does that tell us about human nature? I think it’s a very strong sign that people will sympathize with the abusers. Noöne likes a victim.

jimmy m wrote:
A more accurate phrase is cruel and relentless torture. In adult society, the terms used are physical abuse, psychological abuse, and assault and they are criminal offenses.


Only when someone with the means and the motivation decides to confront it. Most of the time, people will keep justifying it. Bullying doesn’t stop in adulthood by any means; it simply becomes more efficient, as its practitioners continue to hone the already impressive skills they started with.

jimmy m wrote:
* Bullies are very adept at what they do. It is almost like they took a course in the subject.


And, conversely, we must look to them like irresponsible slackers who refused to take seriously such a vital course. No wonder they think we have it coming when we get bullied.

jimmy m wrote:
* They know where in the playground or inside the school, they can strike outside the view of authorities.


Or they simply dare you to go there if you have the balls. After all, once they put it in these terms, you have to go.

jimmy m wrote:
* They know how to inflict the maximum amount of pain without leaving visible marks as evidence [such as a jab to the ribcage, a kick to the nuts, or a chokehold].


And plenty of other clever tricks, like pinching you tightly when you least expect it, in the middle of a lesson, so you yell and only you get punished. They can truly apply their intelligence to the task of tormenting you, with a clear conscience. I’ve never been able to do the same; my opponent always seems to be in the right, even if different opponents contradict one another.

jimmy m wrote:
* They know about the unwritten rules such as the “Code of Silence” and the “Never Snitch”. They enforce these rules to silence witnesses.


And where do those rules come from? I don’t think they’d exist if they weren’t more or less instinctive in most people. They certainly weren’t in me; I had to learn them with great effort, and I still believe I haven’t learned them very well. They didn’t make sense to me: what’s the point of having an authority that theoretically forbids us to assault one another if you can’t summon it to protect you?

I think in past generations they made it much clearer, at least to boys, that your self-defence is your responsibility alone, so you’d better learn to fight and apply yourself to it more than to any academic discipline; after all, without being ready to fight, you were useless as a man. By the time I began to grasp this, I was already an adult.

jimmy m wrote:
* You show up armed only with your fists to protect yourself, while they might show up armed to the teeth. Any fight is rarely fought on a level playing field and the conclusions are rarely left up to chance.


That’s part of knowing—or making—the rules, too. Any attempt on your part to fight under conditions that favor you will be immediately denounced as unfair and therefore cowardly, not just by the bullies themselves, but by everyone. You’ll never see this criterion used against them, however. They know when it really applies and when it doesn’t.

To add insult to injury, one of their many resources to use against you when it suits them is … snitching. I was baffled once, in addition to red with embarrassment, when I asked a classmate for something we had to share, and he refused to let me use it, arguing loudly, so the teacher could clearly hear it, several times in a row for good measure, that I didn’t need it because I hadn’t done my homework. By then, I firmly believed you were never to snitch on a classmate under any circumstances. Wrong again, to be sure: you are responsible for enforcing the “no snitching” rule in your favor, so of course it’s perfectly okay to snitch on a pathetic loser you have no reason to be afraid of. By the way, that classmate was one of the most popular kids in the class, well-liked, usually peaceful, with cool hobbies and undoubtedly considered “positive” in modern terms.

EDIT – Grammar.


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Last edited by Spiderpig on 27 Aug 2018, 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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27 Aug 2018, 12:20 pm

I was bullied/abused/tormented/insulted, etc a lot when I was younger, not just from school kids but also by my adult relatives and even strangers in the neighborhood. I consequently developed PTSD and never thought I'd live to see 18. When I did, I never thought I'd live to see 21. When I got to 30 I realized I'd overstayed my welcome and made a serious suicide attempt.

Today I still live alone in social isolation. I don't really care for that but it seems like it's the best and only way for me to cope with this cold, cruel world. I'd say I was bullied because I was a loner, still am, and came from a different country, so American kids mocked my accent incessantly. Plus, I was poor so I never wore the hip fashions, always "high waters" and "skips." I also wore glasses so, naturally, I was "Four Eyes." There were other issues besides those but you get the picture.



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27 Aug 2018, 12:46 pm

jimmy m wrote:
Lost_dragon wrote:
I have been both bullied and a bully. The latter I deeply regret. I don’t think bullying is due to one singular reason, instead there are often multiple contributing factors. Personally, I acted out and hurt the ones that I cared about because at the time I didn’t possess the emotional capability to accurately convey my feelings in a healthy manner. Anger and frustration frequently took control of me and I wasn’t sure how to deal with that. Bottling up my emotions only made it worse as I found myself exploding unexpectedly when I didn’t mean to.


One of the common reactions against bullying or being betrayed is anger. You are reacting to being attacked. This is a common trait for Aspies and NTs alike.


Regardless of my reasoning, I still stooped to the level of my bullies. I took it out on someone when I really shouldn't have done, and that makes me no better. Even though she didn't help me, she shouldn't have been treated the way I treated her. Looking back on it, I understand why she acted the way she did.


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27 Aug 2018, 12:58 pm

redrobin62 wrote:
I was bullied/abused/tormented/insulted, etc a lot when I was younger, not just from school kids but also by my adult relatives and even strangers in the neighborhood. I consequently developed PTSD and never thought I'd live to see 18. When I did, I never thought I'd live to see 21. When I got to 30 I realized I'd overstayed my welcome and made a serious suicide attempt.

Today I still live alone in social isolation. I don't really care for that but it seems like it's the best and only way for me to cope with this cold, cruel world. I'd say I was bullied because I was a loner, still am, and came from a different country, so American kids mocked my accent incessantly. Plus, I was poor so I never wore the hip fashions, always "high waters" and "skips." I also wore glasses so, naturally, I was "Four Eyes." There were other issues besides those but you get the picture.


There are two key drivers that affect male Aspies. They are like foundation stones in understanding why we are the way we are. These are Bullying (lesson #1) and Separation for the Herd (lesson #2). It is the combination of these two behavior traits that produce the problems that we are forced to live with, such as developing PTSD and contemplating suicide. But Apies have a fundamental choice that can shape the rest of their lives. There are two types of Aspies.

p.s. One day when I was in the hallway of my 6th grade school, I was surrounded by a group of boys. They asked me what my nationality was. I sensed danger and said nothing. They looked at me. I was small and had large ears. They decided I must be Japanese. I said nothing.

For the next three years, I was told every Japanese joke ever invented. Whenever they threw a joke my way, I maintained a stone cold face. That was a little hard to do sometimes because I wasn’t Japanese and a few of the jokes were actually a little funny. But if I showed any emotion, the jig was up.

To this day, if they are still alive, I wonder if they remember the little Japanese boy that went to their school. And I am still chuckling deep inside. That is my quirky sense of humor.

Now if I were Japanese, every one of their jokes would have been a dagger to the heart. And it also made me somewhat immune to any other criticisms they leveled in my direction. If they called me stupid, an idiot, a klutz, an imbecile; I knew deep inside I really wasn’t because I was pulling the wool right over their eyes and they didn’t even realize it. This almost made me bulletproof from psychological abuse.


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27 Aug 2018, 1:17 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:
I still stooped to the level of my bullies.

In my case, I didn't. I kept my hands to my side and forced myself to control my anger and never fought back. But after 3 years of physical torture, it began to take its toll and I began to experience overwhelming rage.

If you can withstand 3 years of constant physical torture, it alters a person. Many of my positive traits sprang from this. I can plant my feet firmly on the ground and withstand the fiercest of storms. I am tenacious. I never give up. I am fearless. I am a non-conformist. I do not conform to society but rather expect society to conform to me. And in my own way I am proud to be an Aspie.


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27 Aug 2018, 1:40 pm

jimmy m wrote:
Lost_dragon wrote:
I still stooped to the level of my bullies.
In my case, I didn't. I kept my hands to my side and forced myself to control my anger and never fought back...
I tried to fight back. One day between classes I got lucky and landed a solid punch right to the middle of one guy's face. He dropped, stunned and bleeding.

One punch. Down.

I said, "Who's next?" and nobody moved. That's when the teachers and the principal showed up. They had been watching from the third floor. The other kids tried to tell them that I had started it, until the principal told them that he had seen the whole thing.

After that, I still got bullied, but it was more verbal than physical; and when it was physical, I always made sure that someone on the other side regretted it for a long, long time.



Spiderpig
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Veteran

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Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,893

27 Aug 2018, 1:51 pm

I could only ever daydream of that. They almost always deflected my blows, but even when I hit them with all my might, I only made them laugh. There was a general consensus that I only tickled them. It’s always seemed to me that in order to be worthy of the tiniest amount of respect (as in not being constantly assaulted), you need to have been born with ten times my muscle mass. Unless you’re female, too old or too young, or you have an obvious physical disability, so beating you would be considered cowardly, that is.


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The red lake has been forgotten. A dust devil stuns you long enough to shroud forever those last shards of wisdom. The breeze rocking this forlorn wasteland whispers in your ears, “Não resta mais que uma sombra”.