Why are ASD people seen as arrogant?

Post Reply New Topic

A frequent criticism I receive is that I am arrogant and/or pretentious. Usually it comes after I have discussed a point of difference (of opinion, methodology, belief, etc) between myself and another person.

I have a really hard time understanding why, though the frequency of the criticism tells me that at the very least I come off that way frequently.

I try to be open minded, and frequently am persuaded to change my actions and opinions after discussing things with other people. Much of the time, though, I remain unconvinced. From my naive perspective, it's like they're mad at me for not changing my mind. But what if I don't think that my concerns with their opinion have been addressed, or that I don't think their concerns about my opinions are true? Am I a dick for suggesting that we might just have to agree to disagree?

In these conversations, I usually try to ask questions about what the other person thinks, and in turn answer their questions. It seems like an equivalent exchange. Usually I am actually really enjoying the conversation, but eventually it becomes apparent that the other person is frustrated.

What do you think is going on?

I have a few ideas, but I am not really sure:

1. ASD people do not understand the unwritten social rules of a conversation, and somehow violate them, causing the other party to feel attacked and dismissed.
2. ASD people do not feel the social pressure to conform, and the resistance to changing their opinions for social reasons (even if they might for intellectual reasons) makes them come off as arrogant.
3. ASD lack awareness and thus don't understand the full situation. The full situation is more obvious to NT people. The juxtaposition of the ASD person's adherence to their beliefs coupled with the obvious (to an NT) things that ASD person is missing makes the ASD person actually arrogant.
4. ASD people assume that the discussion is limited to the scope of the conversation, whereas for NT people the conversation also inherently contains other subtext. To disagree with someones ideas, to an NT, is to also view that person as stupid in the NT world. ASD people thus, even if they are limiting the conversation to raw ideas, are inherently and subtextually insulting the people they disagree with.

What I don't understand, though, is, why doesn't this apply to the other person too? Why equally arrogant?

What's even worse, is that if I see someone is having a bad time with the conversation, I will often cut it short and try to change the subject to something more enjoyable. Maybe in the future I will avoid specific topics if I know they are frustrating for specific people. In these cases, I am accused of being dismissive! It feels l never come off as someone who is open minded and respectful unless I just agree with the other person.

Because we can be blunt.
Bluntness comes off as arrogant.

I had a friend who was very shy and quiet who might have been on the spectrum. People often mistook her reserve as snobbery.

She also didn’t smile at people unless she had something to smile about which could’ve made her seem more closed off than she actually was. She was actually a very nice girl, not snobby or arrogant at all!

People tend to think you have a problem if you don’t follow these small type of social conventions.

There is some tendency for some Aspergians to feel they are "superior" to NT's because they use logic over emotion.

With my ASD friends (I'm not autistic) I think that it is the agressive tone of voice and the "I am always right don't you know?" facial expression, it's a black and white determination of the facts, no fun or banter or playing around or discussing for the fun of it. Sometimes I think that ND's use the wrong facial expression for the situation. A smile softens the atmosphere. It is the inflexible adhesion to the truth that comes over as being arrogant and it becomes an unfriendly conversation , where the purpose of the exchange for NT's is often social rather than the urgency of getting the facts right. With my ASD friends I always give in and don't mind because I think that I understand what is going on, and I find their seriousness endearing cos I love them. Besides when arguing with me they are usually right.
That's my take on it anyway.

Well I am arrogant, so I can see how I would come off as such.

You see? You put it in a nutshell and I used all those words. I always feel inadequate because aspies are so much more efficient and economical when expressing ideas than I am .

"They" say I am arrogant. Maybe its because...

... I answer the questions they ask, and not the questions they want answered.

... When asked for my honest opinion, I give it.

... I will do my utmost to answer truthfully, even if the truth hurts.

... I do not consider whether my answers will hurt, but only if they are accurate.

... Feelings are irrelevant when facts are necessary.

... People are responsible only for their own feelings, just as I am responsible only for mine.

... I do not suffer fools gladly.

I think LOGIC can often be the cause of people perceiving us as arrogant
although i do know one or two Aspies who are computer geeks, who are arrogant
because they assume they know more.

Not sure if this is because they are aspies or because they are computer geeks
as i have met quiet a few geeks who are super arrogant who do not have aspergers.

on the degree course i did years ago, arrogance and superiority was the accepted norm
the degree i took was on Sound technology (sound engineering for pro recording studios, live reinforcement etc.)

I think that sound tech geeks also have a tendency to be super arrogant. Think this is because they use lots
of long complex terminology so as to alienate their audience in order to make themselves feel superior and their
audience inferior.

I think that the cause of this attempt to project "superiority" is actually caused by an inferiority complex, when it comes to sound tech geeks. As a high percentage of sound tech geeks opted for sound engineering because they secretly wanted to be rock stars but lacked the talent and looks....

I follow both logic and emotion, try and balance. Although i am guilty at times of constantly searching for what i think is the best solution to a problem. This can be a problem in some conversations where for example, some people (such as woman) only really want to have someone to listen and to value their opinion.

Some times when people share problems that are not looking for a solution. In some cases, the last thing they want
is to be told that the reason why they are in such a mess is because what they did was wrong and stupid, and that they should have used your logical answer to the solution, which is without the most logical and superior solution ever.
obviously!....umm! yep, that's why i get into trouble,

the problem is that 9 times out of 10, i am right. lol....
which i guess for some people who are inherently incompetent at everything (my ex-wife as an example)
is extremely frustrating and which makes her feel inferior and useless... but hey, i did nothing intentionally
to make her feel inferior. ... what can i say, i can't help but be awesome!! !....
lol....

(I have written the above to illustrate how arrogant us aspies can be, sometimes without intention)....
sometimes its fun. and sometimes others feeling inferior is more to do with them than anything that we do....

There are times when something might be correct "logically"----but is incorrect from a real-life, common-sense standpoint.

List 3 examples, please.

People may think I am arrogant because they expect me to care about their problems when they have never once cared about mine. As a result, I have had to learn how to care for myself without outside help. If they would only do the same, maybe they would see less arrogance and more competence in my attitude.

I can be legitimately arrogant sometimes, and I do acknowledge that.

Yet I notice a truth to what you are saying. There are times when I am not at all displaying arrogance but am explaining something factual to someone who is getting offended and interpreting it as arrogance unjustifiably.

I think a lot of your numbered points are close to the truth. I also think the response of Teach51 is illuminating as well.

I have insight here because a couple years or so ago I learned how to alter my approach to "explain effectively." What did it take, you ask? It took fake smiling. It took empty "acknowledgments" of their position even if I found no value in it due to the facts. It took the conscious regulation of tone and inflection. It took the alteration of authoritative descriptions of facts into what I consider "humble posturing."

You know... phrases like "Well...I can definitely see where you're coming from there. [reinforce that you actively listened and validate their feelings on their statement here]. But you know (say nonthreateningly) I read this thing the other day, and to be fair I don't know how true it is and I'm no expert on the subject, but it was suggesting that perhaps.... [insert factual statement you wanted to state from the beginning]. But who knows? Once again...I'm no expert (smile)."

I do not respect you if I feel I have to do this to you. It's like doing "goo goo faces" for toddlers. I'm sorry to those I offend, but this is seriously how it feels on my end to have to manage you in this fashion.

Everybody can be arrogant sometimes, if they believe strongly about something that someone else doesn't. Some people are more arrogant than others. I don't think it's an autistic trait though. Or maybe autistics are arrogant about different things to what NTs are arrogant about. That's how I see things anyway. There are a lot of black and white thinkers on WP, who think "autistics have this trait, NTs have the other" and they say it like it's fact, then when you try to give your opinion or oppose to it, they then go, "you see - you've got the trait!"

Like when the thread about Aspies being more closed-minded popped up, and some of us tried to explain that it's not an actual autistic trait, as NTs can be closed-minded too, and then we got the annoying "see, what you've just said IS closed-minded!" But that doesn't mean we are all closed-minded. It just means that NTs and autistics can be closed-minded about different things. For example, Aspies can be closed-minded when it comes to change of rut or routine or whatever, but NTs can be closed-minded when it comes to dealing with people who aren't the same as them. But it is unfair to generalize, but that's still a better way to approach it instead of saying "yep, Aspies are at fault while NTs are perfect" or "yep, NTs are at fault while Aspies are perfect".

So the point that I'm trying to make is NTs can be arrogant too, in slightly different ways, being so some Aspies traits can make us seem arrogant. But that doesn't mean NTs aren't arrogant.

Oh, I learned all about that "Empathy Model" from Crisis Intervention Training. Then I realized that the people who seemed to benefit the most from this soft-sell method kept coming back for more of it while they completely disregarded the practical advice they were being given -- they were not concerned so much with improving their situations as they were with having someone pay attention to them.

Giving them the "Dutch Uncle" routine was more effective -- they either started acting on the suggestions they were given, or they went away and sought attention elsewhere.

Again, no one held my hand when I needed it, so I learned to do without emotional support. Maybe that's what they reallymean by "arrogance" -- the lack of need for emotional support.

Easy! I think they key here is that in this case correct/incorrect means that a 'correct' answer will result in the desired outcome, and 'incorrect' answers will not. It also hinges on taking a specific stance in terms of what the desired outcome is.

1. The desired outcome might be that you want your wife to feel good because you care about her, and in general the happier she is the happier you will be. If she has put on a some weight and is self conscious about it, and asks you how she looks in her new outfit, the correct answer would be to say that she looks great. It may be factually correct to tell her that she clearly is showing her weight gain, but it is not the 'right' answer to get the results you want.

2. Image you work for a boss whose son is your coworker. The boss's son does a bad job in general, and makes a lot of mistakes, but you enjoy your job overall and want to keep it even if you have to make up for the boss' son's mistakes. Say you have a meeting with your boss, and they ask what could be done to make things at work go better. The most obvious, and highest impact answer might be to suggest replacing their son with someone competent. Yet this is just gong to piss them off and your liable to get fired, or at best treated more poorly in workplace. The 'correct' answer relative to your goal of keeping your job would be to suggest something less optimal, such as changing a vendor to save some money or something else that won't have an emotional impact.

3. Say your favorite color is smaragdine, and you own a bike in that color. If it gets stolen, and your goal is getting it back, then the correct answer to the question, "What color is it?" is 'Green', even though technically it is smaragdine. No one knows what smaragdine, but everyone knows that green looks like.

Last edited by TheOther on 24 Jun 2019, 2:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.