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Mountain Goat
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03 Nov 2019, 5:45 am

A question I have been asking myself.... Sometimes it is easy to work out but a lot of the time it is not.

Regardless if I am on the spectrum or not, I have some traits. Now apart from the obvious, which in my case are the anxiety and the shutdowns.... With a few of the other traits..... If I find I am struggling, how do I know this is not something everyone else on this planet gets? I have gone through life assuming I am physically and mentally normal (As I didn't know anything about autism except that it was a dissability, and I never knew why I was a little slower then others in sport etc., where my balance and co-ordination may not have quite been the same etc.), but with a different upbringing so I was a very different and rather unique character...
Since I have been on this site and found out many of the aspects are autism related as in traits, it is confusing me to try to figure out where the traits end and the character of "Me" begins?
Also difficult to work out.... And this is something that I have really noticed all my life but never understood the reason why until recently, but I still find it hard to work out....is that why is it, that others can skim through certain physical tasks and learn them quickly without much thought, and yet it took me a mamoth task to not only learn by practice, practice, practice... But also, often I would have to repeat this method twice or more because I seem to need to learn things more then once. It ks like... If I have learnt something, it does not immediately stay if that makes sense?
But somehow others don't take so long to learn things and it stays with them for longer... Especially in a physical way.
And also, I have noticed, that somehow, if I do a physical task I need to put two or three times more effort to do the same task that other people are doing. For years and years and years this used to really puzzle me! Especially as I was often used as a "Go getter" because I wasn't that quick with other tasks which became all the more frustrating as I always felt and resented that I was used in this way. I mean... I was never really rewarded like some of the students or workers who had learning difficulties were in that by doing the physical tasks they got out of doing the other tasks. No, for me I had to do them both as I was expected to catch up on all my "Other" tasks later in my own time! This has basically been my life story!

You can see how frustrating it was for me to be like this, and on top of it all, be having partial shutdowns and shutdowns while desperately trying to catch up when others just sat there and watched.

So now in my life things are opening up. Things are starting to make sense. Though things are still a bit blurry round the edges, as... You see... At what point do my character and my traits "Kick in" and how can I compare these points to a "Normal average person"?

It really is a difficult thing that I am trying to process here because I simply don't know. It could just me me and I am complaining when maybe if I or anyone else does a task, we all put in the same effort to get the task done? I seriously don't know! All I know is whenever I do things physically, my best efforts usually seem to be about 80 to 90% of other peoples cruising abilities (If that makes sense? I seemed to need to put in 110 or 120% to match their 60 to 80% somehow?).... And then to get partial shutdowns on top means that my working life became aweful where 4 hour shifts felt like I had worked a whole day. If it wasn't for my mechanical expertize and experience I would need double the time to complete the tasks.
So I was finding that unskilled youngsters were working almost twice as fast to do the same tasks that I was, BUT they preferred me because at the end of the day, my work did not normally have any comebacks, which was not the same with other peoples work. (I did offer to train other people but we never really had the time).

But back to the question. Is there a way of knowing where traits, character and expected average abilities can be seperated to work things out?



auntblabby
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03 Nov 2019, 6:01 am

^^^IOW, "am i my autism"? very good question. since i've almost never lived without this thing acting as an energetic and existential filter on my life, i have no frame of reference to gauge how much of me is "me" and how much as AS. all my life i've always had to work several times as hard as NTs for only a fraction of the product that NTs put out without drama.



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03 Nov 2019, 6:12 am

That's the thing. And if we get to be in our "Comfort zones" where our special interests lie, the opposite may be true.

I noticed that in my past (I can't say the same these days due to lack of activity due to inreasing shutdowns and burnouts) that I became good at cycling because I could compensate the lack of quick motor control by using sheer force instead. Other people could rev their socks off, and yes... I could rev... But it was my ability to push and grind my way through is why I became a good cyclist. Also, it seemed to take me longer then my friends of my age to learn to ride a bike... But I was absolutely determined to do it so by the time I was 7 years old I did it! It took a few years of continually trying without stabilizers before I achieved it though. Some were balancing and riding very early. One kid had mastered it in my village and he was only 2 and a half. Most others were about four or five.



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03 Nov 2019, 6:15 am

i didn't get to riding until about 7 also. the only time in my life where i felt subjectively "normal" was the brief period my insurance would pay for Strattera, the only time in my life when i experienced simultaneous alertness and relaxation, clarity. @ $20/capsule the insurance soon balked at paying for it so i was off of it cold-turkey and back to addlement and restriction.



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03 Nov 2019, 3:36 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
A question I have been asking myself.... Sometimes it is easy to work out but a lot of the time it is not.

Regardless if I am on the spectrum or not, I have some traits. Now apart from the obvious, which in my case are the anxiety and the shutdowns.... With a few of the other traits..... If I find I am struggling, how do I know this is not something everyone else on this planet gets? I have gone through life assuming I am physically and mentally normal (As I didn't know anything about autism except that it was a dissability, and I never knew why I was a little slower then others in sport etc., where my balance and co-ordination may not have quite been the same etc.), but with a different upbringing so I was a very different and rather unique character...
Since I have been on this site and found out many of the aspects are autism related as in traits, it is confusing me to try to figure out where the traits end and the character of "Me" begins?
Also difficult to work out.... And this is something that I have really noticed all my life but never understood the reason why until recently, but I still find it hard to work out....is that why is it, that others can skim through certain physical tasks and learn them quickly without much thought, and yet it took me a mamoth task to not only learn by practice, practice, practice... But also, often I would have to repeat this method twice or more because I seem to need to learn things more then once. It ks like... If I have learnt something, it does not immediately stay if that makes sense?
But somehow others don't take so long to learn things and it stays with them for longer... Especially in a physical way.
And also, I have noticed, that somehow, if I do a physical task I need to put two or three times more effort to do the same task that other people are doing. For years and years and years this used to really puzzle me! Especially as I was often used as a "Go getter" because I wasn't that quick with other tasks which became all the more frustrating as I always felt and resented that I was used in this way. I mean... I was never really rewarded like some of the students or workers who had learning difficulties were in that by doing the physical tasks they got out of doing the other tasks. No, for me I had to do them both as I was expected to catch up on all my "Other" tasks later in my own time! This has basically been my life story!

You can see how frustrating it was for me to be like this, and on top of it all, be having partial shutdowns and shutdowns while desperately trying to catch up when others just sat there and watched.

So now in my life things are opening up. Things are starting to make sense. Though things are still a bit blurry round the edges, as... You see... At what point do my character and my traits "Kick in" and how can I compare these points to a "Normal average person"?

It really is a difficult thing that I am trying to process here because I simply don't know. It could just me me and I am complaining when maybe if I or anyone else does a task, we all put in the same effort to get the task done? I seriously don't know! All I know is whenever I do things physically, my best efforts usually seem to be about 80 to 90% of other peoples cruising abilities (If that makes sense? I seemed to need to put in 110 or 120% to match their 60 to 80% somehow?).... And then to get partial shutdowns on top means that my working life became aweful where 4 hour shifts felt like I had worked a whole day. If it wasn't for my mechanical expertize and experience I would need double the time to complete the tasks.
So I was finding that unskilled youngsters were working almost twice as fast to do the same tasks that I was, BUT they preferred me because at the end of the day, my work did not normally have any comebacks, which was not the same with other peoples work. (I did offer to train other people but we never really had the time).

But back to the question. Is there a way of knowing where traits, character and expected average abilities can be seperated to work things out?


If i understand you correctly, you ask what part of you is because of autism, and what is your character.
I have thought about this too, and I think autism is not to be seen separate from your character.
Where for most people character is formed in equal parts by upbringing, experience, a little bit of genetics... autism is an inherently large part of the character.

Autism is different wiring of the brain. With physical disability it is easy to see what is caused by disability, and what not. Because the brain is involved in everything we do, if the brain is working differently, everything is influenced by that.

You wrote that others learn things really quickly, and you have to repeat and repeat? I think the autistic thinking style is that much different, it is just not comparable.
For example, in my last study, everyone learned new concepts quickly BUT SUPERFICIAL. It took me MUCH longer to study, but I knew said concepts in depth.

Also, I think those with ASD have a tendency to over-analyze things, and see more details. It takes time to process those.

Your comparison against other people that you perform less (in percentage)... it is not good for your self esteem.
Can I say you are comparing apples with oranges?

For me, just like you, my work is slow, but extremely accurate and high quality.
What is better: an industrial distillery that puts out chemicals very fast but at 70% purity, or a small scale lab putting out chemicals slowly but 99.9% pure?
Answer: none is better, it depends on the application!

In other words, if we match our skillset with a specific job that requires our specific skills, we can vastly outperform NT's.
Microsoft, SAP, and other large IT companies have specific autism programs that only hire autists, because their skills are unmatched when the right accommodations are in place.

Unfortunately this 'emancipation' of autism in society, let alone in the workplace, is only just beginning.

Mountaingoat, I assume you're not into IT, but just as a thinking exercise: if your employer would have an autism program that specifically caters to your strengths, tolerates your autistic tendencies, and accommodates for your weaknesses, would you still have the issues with shutdowns? I know for sure if I can ever get into such a program (if it does even exist in engineering), I wouldn't even be here on this forum, because when we are accepted, we don't have to feel worthless and question our self so much!


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03 Nov 2019, 4:15 pm

auntblabby wrote:
i didn't get to riding until about 7 also. the only time in my life where i felt subjectively "normal" was the brief period my insurance would pay for Strattera, the only time in my life when i experienced simultaneous alertness and relaxation, clarity. @ $20/capsule the insurance soon balked at paying for it so i was off of it cold-turkey and back to addlement and restriction.



You can appeal the decision to get an off-formulary medication. It takes some doing, letters from the doc, etc. I've done it with my private insurance and also for people on Medicaid.


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Mountain Goat
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03 Nov 2019, 4:41 pm

Quote:
Mountaingoat, I assume you're not into IT, but just as a thinking exercise: if your employer would have an autism program that specifically caters to your strengths, tolerates your autistic tendencies, and accommodates for your weaknesses, would you still have the issues with shutdowns? I know for sure if I can ever get into such a program (if it does even exist in engineering), I wouldn't even be here on this forum, because when we are accepted, we don't have to feel worthless and question our self so much!


Uhmm. Well. I am still learning about what causes the shutdowns. It is only a couple of months ago that I realized that one of the triggers I have are certain smells. It is very odd because I don't think I smell any different to other people. Uhmm. I need to rephraze that... It sounds odd. I mean. I don't think my nose is any more sensitive to other people. And yet, if I smell bleach or certain spray oils like GT85 and others (Which are always being used in the bicycle industry) it sets me off. And such scents... Put it this way. As soon as I enter the shop I worked in I can feel the fringes of a shutdown. If I go upstairs where the bicycles are it effects me more, so if I go in I try to stay downstairs. But I have to go up sometimes. Now in the back workshop it is worse.
But... Dealing with people seems to overload me... I panic. I do settle down after a while but every day this would be the same. Starting bery anxious and then gradually settling down... But with the spray oils on top mean that dealing with people and spray oils is worse foe me then just spray oils.
I have to use spray oils somewhere. At home, now I have identified it, I can use spray oils outdoors. Still effects me but it is not so strong.

I am still ever so slowly learning what effects me.

Uhmmm. Loud sudden noises I have always hated. On the railway the sudden passing of another train... While bright lights... uhmmm. I am not sure if these effect me or not. Hospital corridors effect me but it could be the bleach. But the strip lights flickering... Well. Sometimes I have to get out. But I don't think I am very sensitive to light. Not that I would really say "That's a trigger". Bright sunshine... I do put the sunvisor down before others... I have never been able to drive an open top car or completely open the sunroof if the sun is overhead as I need the shade of the roof as it helps me concentrate as having the sun on me while I am driving is an extra thing to deal with. But... Hang on... As I type maybe the bright sunshine may effect me...uhmmm. Wait! Though I don't know if it is directly a trigger. I mean... Uhmmm. Put it this way:-
I have been puzzling for years about this way before I ever knew anything about autism. But I noticed that I could be out cycling really enjoying myself. (I used to assume the "Limp mode" of a partial shutdown was some allergy as a doctor had told me it was what it was that made me suddenly weak. I thought it was slightly different to a a weakness but it did feel similar in the way that it effected me). Then while I was enjoying myself and everything was good. I had lots of energy. Had drunkmplenty of water. I wasn't overdoing it. I was going great and I was happy! I may have been deep in thought as I tend to always think... But I was happy. And then without warning I would hit a partial shutdown. It was on a bright sunny day! Maybe that's it! ?
I don't 100% know as really I need to go through a lot of partial shutdowns to monitor the enviroment I am in when one takes place, and some of it is stress. I mean... Often I start to shut down when I was doing something and suddenly without warning my youngest brother decided to start a big project and needs my help... The no warning so I can't mentally adjust brings on a shutdown and normally happens while lifting something heavy. GRRR. The stress of thinking about it is making me partly shut down! GRRR!
I will write more later. Need to change the subject and relax! Haha.