One way ASD is oft confused with BPD?

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I was thinking about one possible way that ASD is oft confused with borderline personality disorder: Where people with ASD may seem to have a fear of abandonment.

One thing for me is that if I send somebody a message and they don't respond for a while, I start wondering if I should take it as a sign of rejection, a sign that the person doesn't want to talk to me anymore. I may try to contact them via other means to confirm that. That seems very BPD'ish.

But I think the underlying issue is different: In ASD, it results from perplexity (or Ratlosigkeit). Basically, initially, I was socially very oblivious, but I learned through experience and from other people, that I must make an effort to try to understand others' mental states. I was repeatedly told to try to consider what other people are thinking. Of course, due to the basic defect that I have, the Ratlosigkeit, this is not something that I can do automatically very well, so I must charge up my brain and analyze the situation. This leads to ruminations of past conversations, trying to answer certain basic questions regarding what I'm supposed to come away from them with.

In BPD, as I understand it, such ruminations arise more from anger or sadness, and not so much from Ratlosigkeit.

It is from that uncertainty as to the meaning of other people's actions that I wonder and question, not so much from fear of abandonment (though maybe a little of that is there, too).

Fear of abandonment is central to BPD, too. Also, if you are on the spectrum, you might be more prone to being abused. This can lead to PTSD. On top of that, you may not know how to deal with/understand your feelings.

I think what allowed everyone to think I had BPD (and it's still possible I am on the spectrum AND have it) is I'm a female, and I was in an abusive environment since childhood with an undiagnosed BPD parent. She didn't allow me to develop any independence (well, I probably would have failed at it, but still). I ended up mimicking her behaviors. That, in combination with the extreme empathy I've always felt has lead me down a bad path. However, I'm also highly rational.

What happened with me is my rational and logical brain beats up on my emotional side. My emotions are so strong (often like a borderline's emotions) thus my brain doesn't want any part of it.

one of the ladies due to move into mine is exactly the same way as that with not recieving messages quick enough,she gets a lot of anxiety over it and in fact doesnt use it much as a result,she has clasic autism.

I am diagnosed with BPD, maybe you read my post earlier and it made you think to post, but fear of abandonment for me is not that someone is ignoring me, it's when I think someone is probably on the end of the string where they might delete me off Facebook or something, so because I don't want them to do that, I'll delete them instead.

Often I was completely off course, because they tell me they like talking to me, being my friend etc. then I end up having to explain I'm just stupidly paranoid and try to continue being friends on Facebook again.

Fear of abandonment for BPD is more sadness than anything. They don't want to be alone, or ditched. A break up of a relationship for someone with BPD is extremely difficult, because of that fear of abandonment.

It also doesn't help that we think in black and white terms - We think the person is breaking up with us and no longer wants anything to do with us, we hate them etc. but maybe the situation is actually that the relationship isn't working, but they'd like to still be really good friends.

I hope I explained this clearly enough. I will try to answer any questions from a BPD view.

That's how it is for me. A lot of times I just can't figure out what is going on. And I will think and think and think trying to figure it out.

I also have a hard time with change and/or unpredictability. Like if I have regular communication with someone, and then I don't hear from them at the expected time, I don't know when to expect the next message or phone call and it throws off my other routines. I have a one track mind and have to mentally prepare myself for things. I just don't shift gears easily if something changes. So for instance if I am expecting a phone call, and it doesn't come at the expected time, I can't just go do something else. I have to keep my mind on having the phone conversation to stay mentally prepared for it.

And when it comes to emails or other types of messaging, it can be really frustrating to me to have gaps in between, like when you are instant messaging with someone and they suddenly don't respond for half an hour. Again, it's like I can't shift gears very well to go do something else. In most cases I would rather have a continuous conversation with someone THEN I can go do something else and put my full attention on that instead of having to go back and forth.

The thing is if I complain to people about things like this, some people tend to take it like I am being "needy" or wanting them to drop everything in their life just to pay attention to me, which is ridiculous. Actually I think it is the other way around, they want someone else to pay attention to them, and they don't want to let me know what is going on because it keeps me hanging around for them when it's convenient to them. I don't think it is unreasonable to want someone to give me their full attention while they are talking with me. All I want them to do is to actually let me know that they are done chatting, or have to step away from the computer, or unable to call as planned because they are busy, or whatever. I can be understanding if it happens once in awhile, or when they have a predictable pattern, but not when it's unpredictable.

I can get angry with a person for not responding but it's more about feeling frustrated that they don't respect my time.

I hope what I'm doing isn't considered hijacking a thread. However, I'm wondering what peoples' point-of-view on both the BPD and ASD side are regarding these:

1. Do you have black and white thinking?

2. Do you feel as if you have too much empathy, forcing your mind to shut down and not be able to socialize for weeks?

3. Do you feel an on-going emptiness?

4. Were you abused at all?

5. Does your fear of abandonment come from assuming the person will leave you?

6. Does your fear of abandonment happen when you don't understand people and their intentions, and you relate it to past memories in order to analyze a situation (eventually coming to the conclusion their body language means they don't like you)?


For me, I have black and white thinking, but I also don't understand/misinterpret peoples' emotions. Obviously, a rational person is probably not going to think in black and white terms. However, if you've only experienced a very narrow range of emotions all of your life, this could lead to a lack of empathy. For me, My mother's extreme emotions lead me to thinking in black and white terms when my EMOTIONS are too much, otherwise, I'm quite good at understanding gray areas.

I have too much empathy, and my brain literally shuts down as if it's a computer. I will then refuse to leave my room for weeks.

I have a continuing emptiness that never goes away. I'm not sure if it's due to PTSD, depression, or something else. However, no one else seems to describe this the same way I do, which is a giant hole in my heart. No one except borderlines seem to be able to relate to the extreme emotions.

I was severely abused by my whole family in many ways.

Sometimes, I assume a person will leave me just because I'm so worthless. However, I often am oblivious to people not liking me at first. It's only after I try to interpret all of the body language, tone of voice, and phrases that I become anxious, try to interpret, and conclude they don't like me/want to leave.

When I fear abandonment, it doesn't just come out of nowhere. I analyze a situation for hours, often intellectually and relating it to past interactions with people. I've never heard a borderline say they analyze a situation from their mind. Rather, interpretations of situations and people are often based on their overwhelming emotions at the time. (Note: I know your emotions are real, borderlines. I hope I'm not wording this in an offensive manner). I also never heard someone with BPD say they "analyze" a situation and mean the same thing I do. I literally will become quiet, stare at the wall for hours, and just think about it, trying to make a mental map of what happened.

1. Do you have black and white thinking? Yep. Also called splitting (fun fact)

2. Do you feel as if you have too much empathy, forcing your mind to shut down and not be able to socialize for weeks? I pretty much have little or no empathy. Very impaired empathy is what I would call it.

3. Do you feel an on-going emptiness? Yep.

4. Were you abused at all? In many, many different ways. Physically and emotionally abused at home, physically and emotionally abused at school, and I won't say the other form of abuse that I've received, but it was not at home I can thankfully say that.

5. Does your fear of abandonment come from assuming the person will leave you? Yeah pretty much

6. Does your fear of abandonment happen when you don't understand people and their intentions, and you relate it to past memories in order to analyze a situation (eventually coming to the conclusion their body language means they don't like you)? Basically this. If I've understood the situation to be that I'm not wanted around any more (whether correct or not) I usually make the move to do the 'abandoning', therefore they can't do it to me.

Ahh, yes, the splitting. I knew it was called that, but not everyone does. Thanks for saying it. The more you know...


Also, OP, I wanted to add I've met people on the spectrum who were abused and they have a very bad fear of abandonment. However, I often think if they didn't have that abuse, their fear would only come AFTER they can't understand social interactions. In other words, it would then be because they didn't understand someone, as opposed to coming from anger or sadness.

Bear in mind I am diagnosed with ADHD, not ASD or BPD. I suspect I am autistic, but atypical (PDD-NOS).

1. Do you have black and white thinking?

Generally speaking, no, not at all. I have the opposite problem. I can get lost thinking about all the shades of gray in between and the multitude of possibilities, especially when I don't know how to interpret a situation. I feel like I have to consider all possible perspectives.

Not sure if I can explain this but sometimes I feel like it would be easier to have black and white thinking, so I can just settle my mind on something one way or the other and act on that assumption. I overthink other peoples' intentions and motives and I tend to hold out much longer than most people would giving someone the benefit of the doubt.

2. Do you feel as if you have too much empathy, forcing your mind to shut down and not be able to socialize for weeks?

Too much empathy, yes. But I think it has the opposite effect on me. It makes me keep thinking and thinking and I tend to socialize just for the sake of telling other people what is going on so I can find out what they think about it.

3. Do you feel an on-going emptiness?

No. I feel empty occasionally. Sometimes I just wish I could feel empty. My mind is always full of thoughts and it just keeps going and going.

4. Were you abused at all?

Yes. I was physically and emotionally abused at home. I had other things happen due to neglect in supervision, like a physical injury at school that should have been prevented. I think I was molested as a small child, by some older boys, due to being forced to socialize with them when I didn't want to. I also experienced some religious brainwashing that I consider to be spiritual abuse.

5. Does your fear of abandonment come from assuming the person will leave you?

I fear that a person will turn against me in some way, that they will turn out to be two-faced or gossiping or lying about me. I guess that could be interpreted as emotional abandonment however the people who do that don't necessarily "leave." Sometimes they just keep trying to play both sides of the situation.

I also worry about people close to me dying, like what will I do about all the things that they take care of while they are alive?

6. Does your fear of abandonment happen when you don't understand people and their intentions, and you relate it to past memories in order to analyze a situation (eventually coming to the conclusion their body language means they don't like you)?

Yes, except the part about body language, because it only happens with long distance and internet situations. There were two things that happened that left a very deep impression on me.

The first was, my best friend in high school moved away. I stayed in touch with her and wrote lots of long letters to her. I only got a few back. We spoke very infrequently on the phone, and she visited once. I just assumed she was still my friend like always and didn't have time to write. Two years after she had moved, I called her to wish her a happy birthday. Her mother said, "She's not with you?!" Turns out she was visiting in the area and had lied to her family that she was seeing me, when she was really spending time with someone else she didn't want them to know about. She got in trouble for it and then had the nerve to blame ME for not covering up for her lie. I felt so shocked and betrayed and hurt. I had no idea any of that was coming and I don't know how I could have seen it coming. So to this day I still tend to compare all my friendships to that one, to be prepared in case something like that happens again.

The other situation was when I had a falling out with a friend online. He ran a forum, which I had been posting on for a few years, and we had recently started communicating more by email. Then he abruptly stopped responding. I tried to find out why and didn't get any clear answers. Long story short, he ended up banning me from the forum. A few years later I went back and tried to work things out with him, and he banned me again. I found out he told the other people I was "stalking" him. I found out he had banned other people and spread rumors about them too. A few years after that, he got back in touch with me and apologized for everything. I wanted us to be friends and I tried and tried but I never felt like I could trust him again after all of that. And now I compare all my online interactions to that one to see if it might be happening again.

And apparently, a similar situation has happened again, where one person maligned me to other people online, although I never got enough information from the other people to know exactly what was being said about me (and probably so much better off for me that I was spared from knowing too much detail. One friend said he didn't want to repeat what that person said about me because it was THAT bad.) I did everything I could to try to straighten things out, and finally decided I had no other choice but to cut ties with everyone who is involved with that person.

I think I have complex PTSD from a variety of things that have happened to me, but especially the internet stuff. It's part, not the whole reason but definitely part of why I have trouble dealing with lapses in communication from people. I start over-analyzing things trying to figure out what is going on.

I am terrified of being abandoned, how can I not be?

Realistically, I depend considerably on other people to walk me through what others' actions are about and how to respond, how not to. It's extremely challenging to try to socialize, usually am not successful for long. I often don't realize someone is angry, or trying to hurt or manipulate me until I am told, or until they've played with me for awhile, and it is very anxiety provoking to realize that I am not realizing when seeming pleasantness is genuine, when it is a cover for something negative. So I want a normal life, with friends, with work, with happiness and connections. But I also want to be part of something I often don't understand in a world where I don't quite fit in with people who believe I am not trying when I know it takes incredible effort to think through how to behave and try to find ways to ask when I know I'm simply not getting something that I need to do differently for what I want. And most of the time, it's not even anyone's fault, I am trying, and people get genuinely confused by me. I'm not sure how or why, but I understand that it's the case.

Perhaps I wouldn't be afraid of being abandoned if I had grown up with more support. But I can't help thinking that the effort of trying to be part of something so difficult to figure out, human relationships, is itself quite frightening. Anyway, that is my take on this. I am very literal and I am afraid of being abandoned because it happened when I was young, happens enough that I understand it's likely to happen more, and because people are confusing, and because it is so very difficult to figure out a way through relationships and so hard to form new ones. But I understand that is me, there's only so much I can be angry with others for what I have trouble understanding and doing.

I tend to have black and white thinking, especially when I'm emotional, or talk to my undiagnosed BPD mother. However, all of the other times, I am able to recognize so many different gray areas, that I have no idea what someone is thinking anymore.


I hope by some people answering these questions, it gives the OP different points of view. I hope I'm not being rude and talking too much, OP

Also, I'm sorry, dianthus. I'm sorry for your abandonment problems and the falling out with friends. :[

To you, Waterfalls, I'm especially sorry for what you've been through. I can relate in a lot of ways. You seem very rational about your fears. Often, fears can be rational, given our environment.

I second this...i definitely second this! And the other stuff you posted above too.



I am different here in that I don't mind if people just wander off on me on skype...although it does depend on the individual at the time. For example I used to talk to a chap on the spectrum (had Asperger's) and yes ok, he was very sexy, but he would tend to disappear mid chit chat. One minute he would be chatting the next...silence. I think he used to get distracted but he would pop back to continue the chat later. In his case I just used to sit there waiting for a reply, not receive one, raise an eyebrow, chuckle to myself (especially as I can tend to do the same thing when conversing online...wander off mid conversation if I get distracted or don't know what to say etc) and went and did something else for a while. He would come back later when he wanted to chat anyway.

If people stop talking suddenly and then block me on the other hand and they are a virtual stranger to me I can get quite upset but this is because I don't know what I did that would make them do that. I get confused as to why I have been blocked this time. It bothers me as I seem to feel a need to find out what the hell is going on. I mean if I am doing something wrong I can't correct it if people won't tell me what it is....

Plus I don't like to offend people or hurt their feelings so I worry...

1. Do you have black and white thinking? At times, not often

2. Do you feel as if you have too much empathy, forcing your mind to shut down and not be able to socialize for weeks? Not because of too much empathy.

3. Do you feel an on-going emptiness? Not on-going. At times I do, but not always.

4. Were you abused at all? Never.

5. Does your fear of abandonment come from assuming the person will leave you? Yup

6. Does your fear of abandonment happen when you don't understand people and their intentions, and you relate it to past memories in order to analyze a situation (eventually coming to the conclusion their body language means they don't like you)? I think I fear abandonment just because I'm a paranoid and a bit overcontrolling.

These are the DSM V criteria for BPD (those I meet are in bold):

Too young to have a career plan.
My lack of empathy is not associated with interpersonal hypersensitivity.
I don't meet the criteria for BPD.

I don't think I have BPD, but I will answer the question anyway. I suspect ASD. Ive not been diagnosed with either as my official diagnosis still stands as Social Anxiety and depression.

1. Do you have black and white thinking?

Not usually.

2. Do you feel as if you have too much empathy, forcing your mind to shut down and not be able to socialize for weeks?

Not specifically, although I can feel empathy at times and it can be a strong sensation when I do. I am able to shut it out though by focusing on something else. I can sometimes be oblivious to the people around me, it depends on what I am doing and with whom.

3. Do you feel an on-going emptiness?

Only when I am feeling lonely for a bit of loving affection.

4. Were you abused at all?


Not sexually. Was bullied, do have violent relatives that I stay the hell away from. I won't get involved with them sorry. They also drink and keep getting arrested for assault. Ergo why I say I have no family, despite having 2 half brothers that are still alive and kicking (literally) out there somewhere. The safe ones or the ones I was closest too are all dead now.

Despite my online rants I am very scared of violence and don't cope well in an environment where people are very aggressive. I find it psychologically traumatising and emotionally upsetting. Ergo I like to keep my environment peaceful instead. I won't get involved with people who have violent tendencies due to the fact that I find it so upsetting. No offense meant to those who have such troubles but I would be scared of you.

I can be gobby and I may hit myself when I am upset but I do not scream at other people (unless under extreme duress and in trying to defend myself such as being backed into a corner by a bully) and I most certainly don't get into fights or hit them.

I may feel like I want to wallop people sometimes, but I don't as this would in appropriate, not very nice and I might accidentally hurt them. I don't like hurting people or animals...that is upsetting too. The few times I did have to use force with someone to escape I didn't even bruise them. I wanted to help people or animals, not harm them (even if I do still eat meat that does not mean I want critters to suffer...)

5. Does your fear of abandonment come from assuming the person will leave you?

Not as far as I'm aware. I don't really fear abandonment, but I don't want to fall in love with someone and then get my heart broken as it hurts when you love them and they don't love you back. You get used to them being there and then are gone and it's lonely if you still have feelings for them. If you don't well that is different, it is best if they go away in that instance unless they wish to remain friends which is fine (I have had ex's who I stayed friends with for a while or whom I still talk to to this day if they happen to be around or pop up out of the blue even though no solid friendship exists. ON the other hand I have ex's who never want to talk again, including the one who I turned down when they proposed to me) I just don't like the emotional pain and would prefer to find someone I could love and be with for life. I hate changing partners as well as I don't like change in certain ways. So it has more to do with those things. If I am not in love with someone and they want to go away, ok. Bye then.

I don't need someone to look after me as I like to be independent where I can...(stubborn bugger for that one) but I do like affection, and love, and cuddles and sex...and I'd like a partner to enjoy those things with.

6. Does your fear of abandonment happen when you don't understand people and their intentions, and you relate it to past memories in order to analyze a situation (eventually coming to the conclusion their body language means they don't like you)?

I gave up trying to figure out if people like me based on body language. I'm sorry but I just get confused. I find it easier to just ask people and then take their word for it. Unfortunately that can result in my being lied to and used. It happens a lot to me and you would think i would learn my lesson but I don't. I keep repeating the same errors in judgment over and over again. As soon as I get over the last hurt I go back to being overly trusting again and well..the process repeats itself. I only fear getting involved with someone new if I am still in pain from the last bad experience. It heals in time though and I go back to being gullible and naive.

I can also get a little attached when I first fall in love as I get a bit carried away and do things like spam text them thinking I am being cute or showing them affection or caring, meanwhile I have clogged their phone up and pissed them off apparently I don't mean to be annoying...I just get a little excited.

I just want to let them know I 'luffs' (love) them and care. Apparently I manage to do irritating more effectively and end up making myself look clingy by mistake.

I don't really fear being abandoned as such though, but I don't like getting hurt when I get attached romantically.

Last edited by bumble on 25 Jan 2014, 8:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

Sorry for any typos. I have a banging headache coming on and my english skills are suffering...as is my eyesight.

I have BPD comorbid with autism, and it's a nightmare. I made a post about it just a few minutes ago.