I am sorry I was so argumentative in my posts

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Most of you who read my posts know that they basically start with my talking about Situation X and a long debate why I think its unfair. Which often looks silly because oftentimes situation X involves me being the one who did something wrong so it sounds like I am not willing to accept responsibility. Thats not the message I intended to make. Rather I was trying to ask why aren't people more forgiving. And I still wonder about that. But here is something that occurred to me: even if I am right that it is all unfair, how is it going to help me? The clock is ticking, I am 41, and I missed out on the best part of my life. What can I do about it?

In actuality, its the feeling that I can't do much about my situation that makes me stuck on obsession regarding the fairness of this. Let me give you an example. I am bad at sports, always have been. When I was little, I was upset about it. But then my dad had me run every morning. I became good in running. And then I was top runner in cross country team in high school. I was still not nearly the top overall, just on my team (it was a bad team) but I was in the top half, so no more complaining. So maybe if with everything else in life I were to take a proactive approach such as this, maybe I wouldn't have to sit down and complain about this either. For example, I feel it is "unfair" that women judge by looks. But what would have happened if I were to actually spend 15 minutes every morning taking a shower, brushing my teeth, brushing my hair, tucking in my shirt neatly, etc. I wasn't doing any of it because I wanted to "save time", yet I spent a lot more time writing lengthy posts on how "unfair" I was being treated.

But realizing it *now* doesn't help me much, because I realize it way too late. I am 41 now. So no amount of brushing my hair or tucking in my shirt would get my age back. Few years ago I actually written a post on autismforums.com as to whether I can do anything to get a woman in her 20-s to approach me. People's reaction to it was that I was only after sex, which is not true: I don't believe in sex before marriage. What I am after is that the dynamics of the interaction between younger people and older is different. So if I were to have lived a fulfilled life in my 20-s and 30-s then I would be more than happy to stay with my friends and, hopefully, my wife who aged into the 40-s. Thats because I would have already experienced the 20-s life, and I would have known what its like. But since I never experienced it, I want to experience it now. And there is nothing sexist about it. I would have said the same thing if I was a woman too. I mean any gender deserves to fully experience every stage in life.

Now, what makes it hurt the most is that I feel like it is my fault I missed out on it. Because in my 20-s and 30-s I spent too much energy obsessing about how the social rules are unfair, and not enough energy thinking about how to actually fit into those rules. I mean judging people by how fast they run is unfair too. Yet when I did so well in my high school cross country team I didn't worry about it being unfair. Why? Because I found a way to fit in! I should have done the same thing with social rules!! ! But I haven't. And now its too late.

But anyway. After all of my posts with the "why" questions, let me ask you a "how" question for a change. What can I do to experience some of the things I missed out on, despite my age?

I can say with confidence that having a from what it seems you intended to say.. somewhat a pessemistic point of view. Perhaps not that you always see the worst situation but sounds negative to a degree. As for women judging from looks basis only I fail to see that this would differ from men also. I like to think that it's essentially an incorrect statement for point of view sake and that though important for most people m and f. They would see beyond that and not everyone is seemingly shallow. Least I like to believe that probably because I am not. For social stuff.. having fun etc at 20-30 can't say much on it.. never did toooo much of it. Every third or so week might make an attempt to be social except it was different going out etc as I did some dance hall and clubs and I guess it's an atmospheric thing when liquor is involved and everyone seemed to be there for the same purpose. As opposed to say attempting to sit and watch sport or something like that but only do so to be social. What can you do diff now however? Seems like you'd have to try out things or something that you might have wanted to but didn't or something.. can't really add to that.

even if i could fit into those bloody rules, i never saw that it was worth it.

I think it’s because you seem to like to argue sometimes, and maybe even enjoy making a game of it.

I feel like you have a genuine desire to be friends with people. It would be better if you argued less, and listen more.

Give people some leeway. And don’t assume you’re right all the time.

Not all women and not only women, plus I've seen you talk a lot about the importance of looks too by the way. Anyway, what I came to say is that expecting someone to brush their hair and teeth is not being unfairly judgmental of looks, it's expecting people to have basic manners. It's bad behavior to go out and about looking really messy. If it happens to someone from time to time because they were really in a hurry, most people won't bat an eyelash, but if someone leaves them undone on purpose all the time then it's no wonder they leave a lasting bad impression on people... honestly though, I was like that in elementary school and wouldn't have bothered brushing my hair and making sure my clothes were neat had my mom not nagged about it and always checked everything. Did your parents (grandparents? I recall something about you living with them at some point?) not make sure you looked at least somewhat appropriate before going out when you were a kid? If not, then I suppose it'd make sense that you didn't pick up such a basic thing from anywhere at really young age, but I'm sure some people must've pointed it out to you earlier. Anyway, if I understood correctly, you now rather use that little time to look decent instead of complaining how it's unfair people want others to look decent...? If so then good for you.



Hmm, middle age crisis in play here, perhaps? For what it's worth, I missed out on what's considered "normal teenage years", too. People are being very sympathetic to the 15-20 year old now 'cause they're "missing out" on so much normal teenage stuff like partying in bars, their first summer jobs, hanging out at town with friends and I'm like ??? I never had any of that? No summer jobs 'cause I lived in a place without public transport and disability prevented me from driving, so I wouldn't have gotten to any jobs. No hanging out with friends for pretty much the same reason, though not having many friends was also a factor. Not going to bars has been completely my own choice though... but how did I spend my last teen year again? Oh right, waiting for a surgery that could've taken my life. And yet no one ever talks about us who "miss out" on these times due to our disabilities... anyway, back to the point, which is you.

You could try to just hang out with people in their 20s to 30s and make friends with them. Should be easier for you than an average man your age since you're at an university. If you can get in to a group, you can hang out and experience things with them. Of course, some groups don't accept just anyone for numerous of reasons, some that make perfect sense and some that are unfair, but you could try finding one that would accept you. I'm not an university student, but I'm a member of a certain hobby club at the local university, and while most people there are university students from early 20s to early 30s, there were some middle aged men too who shared the hobby, and they were accepted to the group meetings just fine. This was pre-covid of course, but the point is that you could try making friends based on a shared interest, for that might make it feel more natural to make friends with younger people as well as those of the opposite sex.



Honestly, pretty much. Of course, it's not like you were intentionally born without the natural ability to understand unwritten rules, but it was your own choice to not put in the effort to learn. I also think that many social rules don't make sense and some are even unfair, but the thing is, life is so much easier if one learns to play by the rules of the society. Of course, sometimes one ought to put their foot down and say that this isn't how it should be done, but it's important to choose the when and where for that wisely.

But no, it's not too late to learn social skills. Yes, you've apparently missed out on a lot of things that people usually experience at certain ages, and while you might experience those things a little at a later age, you'll never get the full scale. But the thing is, if you learn social skills, you're less likely to miss out on even more things. Like, let's imagine that you do get that dream job of yours, but then get fired due to bad behavior (you were too blunt or missed too many cues or something.) Doesn't sound good, does it? Or that you find the woman of your dreams, who's not all that bothered by your possibly quirky behavior, but can't handle the shame you bring to her in front of her family and friends due to your lack of basic manners and social skills? So yeah, while learning social skills won't bring back the past, it could save your future.

Not taking showers, etc., is probably one very important reason, but not the only reason, for your difficulty attracting women.

Two other sources of difficulty, of course, are (1) your ASD and (2) being an immigrant. Both of these are likely to result in difficulty understanding local cultural niceties, and may also result in mannerisms and body language that most locals find offputting for any number of reasons.


I disagree with that last sentence. I think we just need to accept the fact that, if we are oddballs of whatever kind, we won't get to experience every stage of a "normal" life. Instead of pining for a "normal" life, we need to live life on our own trajectory, which may have very different "stages" from a "normal" life.

There are quite a few "normal" things I never did and will never do, like having a child. In my twenties I came to the realization that I would never be capable of the responsibilities of being a parent, due to my extreme difficulties with multi-tasking, and due to my greater-than-normal need for sleep. I also don't drive a car.

On the other hand, there are "stages" I've gone through that most people never do, such as founding and leading oddball groups of various kinds, and exploring nonmainstream spirituality of various kinds. These were valuable experiences for me.

Relationships between men in their 40's and women in their 20's do happen (I was in a few such relationships when I was in my 20's), but they are rare. Offhand, I can think of only 4 circumstances under which such relationships are likely to happen:

1) The woman is a member of a group or subculture in which most of the men are older, and she feels alienated from most men outside the group. (This was the case for me.) Such groups, however, aren't likely to have an abundance of young women, and any young woman who does show up is likely to have lots of men competing for her attention.

2) The woman specifically dislikes most men her own age, for whatever reason.

3) The man is wealthy (or at least upper middle class) and a "sugar daddy." (The stereotypical case, and possibly the most common case?) This might be possible for you if/when you become a full professor, but that's still a long way off if I recall correctly, if indeed it will happen at all. If you decide to go this route, make sure you don't seek a relationship with a student at your college at that point; that would be unethical.

4) College clubs while you are still a student, as suggested above by Fireblossom -- but only if grad students are allowed, of course. Make sure you find out your college's rules on who can attend student clubs. If you also work as a teaching assistant, make sure you also find out your school's ethical guidelines regarding relationships between such students and other students. (For example, there is almost certainly a prohibition on relationships with students who have attended or who are likely to attend your classes.)


You omitted a third alternative: finding workarounds, in those cases where fitting in is just not possible.

This has usually been my preferred alternative.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 14 Mar 2021, 10:50 am, edited 3 times in total.

Perhaps this might be possible for QFT.


That's an important point.

I know that due to Asperger's I would have had fewer options than most people, but my regret is that I lost whatever few options that I had. And shower might be one reason for this. The other thing I keep looking back at are the very few times that women "did" try to talk to me and I ignored it -- which was ironic because those were the exact times I spent so much time on dating sites, so I don't know why it didn't cross my mind that the women right in front of me counted for something. So I keep thinking that if I didn't ignore those few attempts maybe I would have had a friend or two. And if I took showers, maybe it would have been even better.

Of course it would all be a lot less than most people have, but that would have been much better than what I had as is, which is precisely the point. I don't think I would want most people's experience anyway. I don't like bars and wild parties, I can tell you that. The experiences I look back on are quiet, innocent interactions, pretty much. I guess its always possible that if I did take a bait they would have led to something I don't like. But then at least I would have known it, and I wouldn't be sitting here wondering if I missed out on something.



I don't drive either, but then again, my parents and grandparents never learned to drive, and they don't have Asperger. I guess its because in Russia it is common not to drive since a lot of people can't afford a car and, accordingly, public transportation is much better. Don't get me wrong though, Russian roads are full of cars so a lot of people do drive. It is just that it is equally common to see someone who drives and someone who doesn't drive if you go to Russia.

But thats no excuse since my mom came to the US in 1992 and I came in 1994. My mom tried to learn to drive, got scared and gave up. In my case she never tried to get me to learn to drive. So I am thinking she just assumes that whatever she finds difficult I do too, which is unfair: how does she know if I never tried? When I confront her with that, she just says that the reason I don't drive is that I was always too busy with school and would always say I don't have time no matter what she suggests. But still the point is: why didn't she push the idea of my learning how to drive? I know how pushy she can get if she "really" wants something.

In any case, right now due to covid she did mention herself how she wishes I could learn how to drive without my brining it up. So I guess perhaps she does want it after all or at least changes her mind about it. I still don't really want to spend all this money on the car or driving classes, particularly since I am trying to pay off the student loan. My mom says she can pay for it though. But still, not much time when I am trying to pull my physics career together and it doesn't go very well.

I do hope I will learn to drive at some point though. Especially thinking of all those little neighboring towns I wish I could explore when I was limitted to just where the train could take me. Being able to drive would give me so much more freedom.



What kind of non-mainstream spirituality are you referring to?

In my case I am of Jewish background but I decided to believe in Jesus so I am exploring various Hebrew Roots movements where they combine Judaism with Christianity. In particular I was going to Messianic churches, to United Church of God and to Seventh Day Adventist churches. I really wish I could go to Assembly of Yahweh. But since I don't drive I can't physically get there since Assembly of Yahweh churches are few and far between.

I do wonder sometimes whether joining a cult would help me fit in, since cults are close-knit communities where they would all look after each other. I was actually thinking of some of the groups I went to as cults. But no, they aren't. At least not in a way that I imagined them to be. They are all regular people for the most part and I have the same old communication problems when I go there as elsewhere. But like I said I haven't been to Assembly of Yahweh, so I am still wondering what would "that" be like.

But what about yourself? What kind of spiritualities were you exploring?



Wouldn't that be more like her going to her older years rather than me going to my younger years? That won't be too appealing.

Don't get me wrong though. I find the idea of weird subcultures quite appealing. For example sometimes I wish I could join some Hebrew Roots Christian cult. But it is not about the age of people that go there, it is about the content of it that it matches my fascinations. Going to some place specifically because of age/gender composition doesn't feel right.



Wouldn't it be something along the lines of 1, namely her aging too fast rather than me reversing my aging? If so, that again doesn't seem that appealing to me. And besides, how would I find that woman: in order to run into her, I would need a large circle of friends which I don't have.



As you guessed yourself, I am not wealthy. But that is besides the point. Even if I were, I find this idea akin to prostitution. I guess not literally since I don't believe in sex before marriage. But I do want to marry at some point (although the idea scares me -- which goes back to the fact that I wish I was younger). And someone marrying me because I am rich, well thats also feels like prostitution sort of. Or if I don't marry and just have friendship, without sex, but the reason for friendship is my money, that makes it all fake too.

But in any case, I am not wealthy, so that is all besides the point. But I felt compelled to say this anyway, just to make it clear what I am not looking for.



And who said I was looking for undergrads. I would actually prefer grad students to undergrads.

I was attending Graduate Christian Fellowship, but I didn't seem to fit in: people didn't start conversation with me. I guess in that fellowship there were mostly men and just 1 woman that went there regularly and occasionally a couple more women that would come and then stop. And no I am not gay. But still it is frustrating when people don't talk to me.

We know you’re not gay....

Why don’t you like showers?

Showers make me feel better.

I never said that it is specifically a woman thing. I know both genders care about it, like you said. Rather I was focusing on women since women is the part that is relevant to me. Kind of like saying "women have two hands". But actually both genders have two hands, but I only mentioned women since women is whats relevant.

But since you brought up the gender difference issue, I guess my impression is the following. In terms of looks versus personality, men are more focused on looks and women are more focused on personality. So men would be "more shallow ones" in this regard. But, at the same time, women tend to be more selective all-in-all. So even though looks matter to them less than personality they still become important due to overall selectiveness.

As far as why are women more selective, that is something that actually puzzles me. From mathematical point of view, if there is roughly the same number of men as women, then both genders would have to be equally selective. Yet women being more selective is what I read on the internet, so its not just my own biased experience. So do you have any theory on how thats possible, given that the number of men and women is the same?



So I guess I didn't see the following two points:

a) I didn't realize it was them "expecting me to brush my hair" since they never said "would you please brush your hair". Rather it was just that nobody approached me and it never occurred to me that it was because of my hair.

b) It didn't occur to me that it is "bad behavior". I always thought of behavior as something I say or do, not how I styled my hair. But now that you put it this way I guess I could say "what I do with my hair is something I do so its behavior". But it never occurred to me till you said it just now.

I guess both points "a" and "b" boil down to the fact that I haven't really put the dots together. As in, people treat me a certain way because I look a certain way (part a) and I look that way because of what I did before I left the house (part b). Thats probably why I felt I was treated unfairly.

But my current frustration is that I realize it way too late so I don't know what to do about it.



And the word "lasting" is what frustrates me. What can I do now to undo that "lasting" impression?



Yes I did live with my grandparents when I was ages 12-14, because my mom came to the US two years before I did. Nice memory

And yes, both parents and grandparents did tell me to brush my hair. But I always thought of it as an inconvenience that I had to do to get them off my back. It never occurred to me that this affects the way others look at me. Maybe that is part of the reason why people became less friendly towards me once I left to another state for graduate school -- since my mom wasn't around to tell me to brush my hair?

Still, however, one thing my parents/grandparents didn't do is they didn't teach me to use deodorant, and neither did they teach me to put the jell on my hair. They are actually against both, because I had severe allergies as a little kid. But you see, my allergies were gone by the time I was a teenager. So I guess they never got passed my allergies that I had as a kid.

Although, at the same time, they don't use hair jells, perfumes and deodorants either. So maybe its not my allergies but their own health obsessions that they had regardless. They believe in alternative medicine and my mom says that my grandma was having a super-healthy diet *before* I was born; and then my allergy only pushed them further in the direction they were going on anyway. Maybe with hair its the same thing.

My mom's hair is also messy, and she thinks its genetics that I inheritted from her. But it doesn't occur to her that maybe its not genetics but rather the fact that neither of us use hair products.

By the way I noticed that certain styles of hair are okay on a woman but not on a man. Like in my mom's case its like a ball of hair around her head. I seen a lot of older women that have the type of hair she does, but I haven't seen any men that have it. Is it because men are more likely to come off as threatening in general and so they have to be more careful as to what they do with their hair?



Right now I live with my mom due to covid, so it feels irrelevant, at least if I am talking about socializing with people at my university which is two states away. I guess I will have to pay more attention to my hair when I get back there.



I don't regret missing anything about teenage stuff, cause teenage stuff doesn't look so appealing. I regret missing out on the 20s stuff.

By the way I haven't had my first job yet: the "jobs" I had so far were either TA as a grad student or a postdoc. And I don't regret that either. I don't want a job outside academia since it would get me away from my studies.

I haven't realized that "first job" can actually be appealing to someone, until you just said it now. To me job seems like something that would just take your freedom away. I guess maybe what you are saying is that they like job because they like to feel like they are an adult? But to me, feeling like an adult was moving away from my mom. That was so much better than the job since -- unlike the job -- it gave me the independence rather than taken away from it.

And I don't like bars either.



I am sorry to hear about this. I remember you were talking about having lifelong condition that can cause death at any point. How are you doing nowdays, are you still in that same situation or were you able to find better medical help?



I was going to Graduate Christian Fellowship where they had bible studies but they didn't seem to interact with me much. When I asked why. I was actually given the reasons. Like one reason is that I was asking "direct questions" that made people uncomfortable. The other reason is that during Bible studies I keep talking about antichrist too much and/or go off tangent on other things. I asked them if I change this behavior will they be able to talk to me more. I wasn't given yes or no answer.

Now, that was the only Bible study group for graduate students. So I tried go to a couple of undergraduate ones. In the first one I went to, I complained too much about my Asperger. Then I sent them a message over facebook about "missing out on the best years of my life" where I mentioned my age. And then they informally told me that they don't want me to go there because I am too old. I am wondering though: is it "really" because of my age or is it because they don't like a whiner around. I mean, I literally talked about my Asperger in two separate occasions, for at least an hour each time -- although the first time it was just to three or four of them, and the second time it was to just one of them, so it wasn't like I was interrupting the whole group this way; but it might have still been way too soon. But they insisted it was my age: they said they simply didn't realize how old I was before I mentioned it (which might be true: I look younger than my age, or at least used to).

Then I was also invited to a different undergrad group, which was about the same time I went to the one above. So when the one above told me not to come because of my age, I complained to the person in the other one about it. And he told me he is good friends with them so he will talk to them and let me know. Then, after he talked to them, he told me I am not welcome to his group either, also because of my age. So I asked him why is it that he first thought my age is fine and now he no longer thinks its fine. He told me he just trusts the judgement of the other group. But that doesn't make logical sense: if the judgement is pertaining to old people in general, then I am sure he already heard from them what they think of old people. If the judgement is pertaining me then, again, do they really mean it when they say my age or are they just finding an excuse because they don't like my behavior (such as complaining too much).

In any case, they have lots of other groups I am sure. But I don't think it would be any different if I go there. Although it doesn't hurt to try. I have to wait till covid is over though since right now I am with my mom and that school is 2 states away.

Once I learned to take showers, I realized that yes I "feel cleaner" when I do shower. But, until I learned to do it, I didn't realize this. So I was thinking that shower is just some mechanical thing where I don't see any results. So how would I even know if I cleaned myself well enough or not? Once I started taking showers I realized I can feel that, but I didn't realize until then.

As far as other things such as hair and so forth I guess its just the time it takes. Sometimes I just want to start doing whatever I am going to do and don't want to put it off by 15 minutes that it takes to take care of my hair and so forth. Which I know is stupid since I spend a lot more time ruminating of why people don't like me. So it was a mistake on my part.

I wasted my 20's, and yeah that sucks....but I can't get it back. Can only make the most out of my 30's and beyond, its not always easy to look back feeling like you wasted a bunch of years...but its no use ruining the rest of your years with dwelling on the ones you wasted.

Idk if that is helpful or not, but well is my thoughts on the matter.

Don't worry about it.

it'd feel a lot better if it was only my 20s that i wasted.

You are 31 so you are in a much better situation than me. Although its true that, back when I was 31, I was also really upset about my age. And yes I knew that being 40 would be even worse and I was scared as hell of this. But I didn't tell myself "hey at least I am not 40" because I didn't even want to think of ever being 40. Just like I am sure when I will be 50 or 60 it would be a lot worse than right now at 40. But I don't want to tell myself "hey at least I am not 50" cause I don't even want to think in that direction. Getting 50 ten years from now will be scary. I wish I could stop the time or something!! !

Same here. I also wasted 30s too.