Asperger Father - ADHD Daughter

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Greetings,

As the title explains succinctly, I have Asperger's Syndrome, was diagnosed fairly late into adulthood. I have a daughter who is almost 8, and has been diagnosed with ADHD.

My wife sent me this article for me to better understand my ADHD daughter, and this does help a lot. Here's the core section:

"The DMN [default mode network] takes care of task-irrelevant mental processes, mind-wandering, contemplation, and reflection. It comprises the precuneus/posterior cingulate cortex, the medial prefrontal cortex, and the lateral and inferior parietal cortex. The DMN is more active when individuals are at wakeful rest, engaged in internal tasks, such as daydreaming, recovering memories, and assessing others’ perspectives. Conversely, when individuals work on active, willful, goal-directed tasks, the DMN deactivates, and attentional pathways engage. The DMN and cognitive control networks work in opposing directions to accommodate attentional demands.

In ADHD, the daydreaming brain doesn’t quiet down when the attention circuits turn on."

https://www.additudemag.com/current-res ... B5QCxNanPQ

Now, this helps to explain why my daughter has issues paying attention, because apparently we have two "modes" - being task oriented, and resting/wandering. The two work at cross purposes, and pull the brain in two different directions.
This ALSO explains why I'm having such a hard time relating to me daughter, because hearing about the DMN, made me do some more research, because I don't really feel like I hardly HAVE a DMN, strangely. The other half of our consciousness is the CEN, the Central Executive Network:

"Central executive network
The CEN maintains and manipulates information in working memory and is also responsible for decision-making and problem-solving in the pursuit of goal-directed behavior (Menon, 2011). Whereas the DMN shows activation during resting awake states, the CEN shows activation during cognitively and emotionally challenging activities."

(From here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/ps ... ve-network )

THAT'S ME. I LIVE in the Central Executive Network. I virtually never "daydream", never "relax", always seek out that next task. Even my "play" is task oriented.
I also found this NIH article that shows that the DMN of Aspergians and Autistics is substantially reduced:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... der%20(ASD)%20is,of%20psychiatric%20disorders%2C%20including%20ASD

This explains ALL of that. We have OPPOSITE minds, my daughter and I, opposite default modes of thinking. She's always at play/at rest/daydreaming/wandering, while I am always on task/working/problem solving.
It explains SO MUCH. Whoa.

Science rules. Now, I have to try to figure out what to DO about this knowledge.

That is why I am here, to seek help and guidance from others that may have experience from one or both sides of these aisles. Is anyone in a remotely similar situation? Anyone have any advice or suggestions for me on how to relate between us? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Aspergers and ADHD may not be as distinct as those who earn a living making these definitions would have you believe. If the neurological variant that produces Aspergers has a component of increased focus (often at the expense of decreased peripheral attention) it could easily be labeled ADHD because the attention is not on what was expected.

My daughters had Aspergers with an anxiety component that presented as selective mutism. As they grew they learned to develop skills to work around and overcome these obstacles. Even the children that Hans Asperger originally observed went on to have normal even successful lives.

You may simply be noticing the difference between how men and women think. Men are more task oriented by nature and so that thinking could be called vertical, while women have a broader view which might be called horizontal.

Your daughter might not get the same satisfaction from working on a joint task with you that a son would. However, you might take your daughter to the zoo and there would be enough to see that it would be an enjoyable outing for her and just being with you might provide her satisfaction.

The key to any relationship is the investment of time.

Neuroscience and Behavioral science can both tell us things about ourselves and others. The DSM-!V had a rule that you had to diagnose Autism OR ADHD - but the DSM-V changed that and you can now diagnose both. My oldest, DS21 (Dear Son and 21) is diagnosed with both ADHD and Autism. More specifically he is diagnosed as ADHD-I (primarily inattentative sub type) and Autism with high functioning quantitative measures (the DSM-V merges Asperger with Autism and added two quantitative measures). Also I was just reading an article that 5 genetic anomalies typify both Autism and ADHD (and 3 other DSM diagnosises). From what I have read the brain centers you mention are part of what is known as "Executive Functions" - and there are more than one. The usual function of the various Exeuctive Functions are impaired (many studies show) in both ASD and ADHD, but slightly different functions are affected - and these can be either "turned up too high" or "turned up too low" - they can also be "disregulated". The analogy I like to use is diabetes - with diabetes you might have high blood sugar or you might have low blod sugar - but the root cause is that the system that is supposed to regulate the level of blood sugar isn't functioning properly. I would say that my experience with ADHD is that the system that is supposed to regulate the switching from DMN to CEN and back again (or to allow them to both be on at appropriate levels - like doing creative work with a technical component - computer work or wood working) is not working correctly and that system is part of the EF. Executive Function / Executive Functions is an intersting term because sometimes it used as a plural and sometimes singular noun. The singular is really a collection of interrelated and interacting functions. Different specialists and theorist give slightly different lists.
There was a scientist at NASA who was working on a satellite - it had many sub systems which did specific things and had specific tasks - the system which controlled the solar panels - various radios and antennas - small rockets for course correction - etc. Sometimes engaging one system would interrupt the normal functioning of the others. The chief engineer asked this scientist to come up with software for a control system to address tasks and the kind of co-ordination they needed - and is occurred to him that what he really needed was a system analogous to the human executive function.
He researched the human executive function and modeled his control system on the research. I have a diagram from one of his papers stuck up inside the cabinet door of one of my kitchen cabinets. It describes almost exactly what you are talking about - routine tasks are carried out - but sometimes deliberate tasks must interrupt - some of the componets he identified were tasks, and task management system which included adding tasks, removing tasks, changing priorities of tasks and executing tasks. Also were "Start" and "Stop" and "error detection". One of the most interesting parts of his system was "tasks simulation" which allowed the software to "think through" a task without using any rocket fuel or engaging any electric motors - this way errors could be anticipated before actually being encountered - a clear win.
Sometimes when my ADHD hyperfocus or ASD perseverating kicks in I notice that my "stop" feature is not firing - other times I notice that my "Start" will not kick in or will not kick in at the wrong time. Computers find keeping track of time trivial, but for humans it is much more difficult - sometimes I will do something but loose all track of time - the "Start" kicked in but the "update clock" or "Check time" feature never engaged correctly - for humans this is called "prospective memory" - our heads really don't keep track of time well and we need to notice things like the change in light (the sun moving) or look at the clock. I read one study on human prospective memory and the study had people baking a cake and also doing some tasks in another room. The people who correctly took the cake out of the oven at the right time had a unique behavior: they "checked the clock more frequently as the deadline approached". The people who didn't take the cake out on time did not have this behavior. It should be obvious that this would require the correct combination of "starts" and "stops" and "keeping things in working memory" and "setting priorities on tasks (and sub tasks)" - some people can do theses things without "even thinking about them" (or without NOTICING they are thinking about them). When I loose track of time either have things fall out of working memory (or get bumped out) or I have them in mind but the "stop" feature just won't engage properly.
Learning more about ADHD can help to see the behaviors as part of a regulation system that doesn't engage properly, and this can help to remove conflict over "you would do this if you cared" or "its not hard - why can't you just DO it - it least it wouldn't be hard for me". It would be kind of like having a blind child and consantly saying "why can't you just LOOK? How HARD can it be? It is right in front of you and as plain as the nose on your face" This only makes sense to say of you know the person has two eyes that work properly and would be quite foolish if you KNEW that they did not.
Another thing about ADHD is once you know the root cause you can help provide help - like medication - or "buy three alarm clocks" or "use a voice recorder to take notes in school" (instead of "why don't you just PAY ATTENTION!").
The other thing that helps is to remember that we all have different gifts - and look for what someone CAN do that you CANNOT do. I worked really well with another scout leader who was very good at planning, but very poor at improvising I am very poor at planing but VERY good at improvising. The planned parts of her meetings went well - when everything went according to plan when the unexpected happened (like a guest speaker didn't arrive) she would come to a crashing halt and I would quickly step in and say something like "OK today we are going to play the name game" or pull some other rabbit out of my hat. My "Hyper Active Attention" was always coming up with new things - while her "Hyper Focused Attention" could plan out a whole month of activities and make (most of) them go smoothly.
Look at Myers Briggs research on MBTI and Carl Jung on the advantages of learning about both your strengths and your opposite.
I am also diagnosed ADHD but I have some ASD traits similar to my DS21 (but no formal diagnosis).

I'm an Aspie, my bride is ADHD.

My impression is that her clock chip is broken. It leads to trying to cram too many things into too little time, or spending too much time on one thing.

I and her devices try to herd her through time in an orderly manner.