NVLD - bad, misleading, inadequate name

Post Reply New Topic

I am from continental Europe, English is not my native language. I am worried because of using the term NVLD (nonverbal learning disorder) to describe something which can meet the criteria for a prervasive developmental disorder. I think that NVLD is just a visual-spatial learning disorder without socio-emotional-behavioral (SEB) symptoms. I think that disorders with developmental SEB symptoms are PDDs. They make somebody "weird", socially inept and "obsessive".

Marked dyssemia is the first criterium of autism and AS in ICD-10 and DSM-V. It is also te second criterium in DSM-V. Dyssemia is an autistic trait. "NVLD" looks like an other way to being an "Aspie".

Autism is not a neurocognitive profile for me.

Autism for me is a pervasive developmental disorder characterised by:

- being "odd" and "weird" form early childhood, it causes significant troubles in life
- deficits in social reciprocity (limited and (or) idiosyncratic social needs), (emotional area of people with autism tends to be significantly "other" than in "typical" people)
- social communications disorders (especially significant dyssemia),
- makerd troubles with interpersonal relations (especially with peers);
- obsessiveness (characteristic pattern of interests: atypical, often not practical, somewhat "obsessive", repetitive, restricted; having atypical customs, rituals, routines)
- often tendency to autostimulating behaviors, hyperkinetic behaviors, hyperactivity
- sensory integration problems to a different degree

I had these symptoms to a different degree in my life. I was told that I have autism when I talked with my psychiatrist who told me that AS is a sort of autism. I do not have "classical", "Kanner-like" autism, but a "soft" species of it. It makes me weird and odd. I was quite easily diagnosed as having Asperger's syndrome few years ago. My secondary school "founded" me diagnosis in special place specialised in ASD. The school also gave me extra lessons in Maths and I wrote the exam at the end of the school perfectly. The school also founded me group therapy. I think that it is not a "social NLD". I think that many, many people with AS are misdiagnosed with NVLD. Pure NVLD is mainly visual-spatial and scholastic disorder, the name "learning disorder" tells so. ASD is developmental social, emotional and behavioral disorder. It can have various neurocognitive profiles and etiologies.

I think that being an Aspie does not require being "autistic". More literal "autism" makes someone really "odd". I think that "NVLDers" who are not "weird" and "obsessive" and have just marked problems with the reading of nonverbal "cues" are a group of "Aspies". I think that those with high-functioning childhood autism also are "Aspies". I named "aspiedom" as "aucorigia" (from "autocontrast" (asyncronous development) and originality ("bizarrity", being "odd")), so being an "Aucorigian" does not mean that someone is really "autistic". "Aspiedom" makes you developmentally "socially inept" and somewhat "odd". "Aspies" have not to be (at least more "literally") "autistic" for me, although they also have social problems from childhood. Aspiedom may be to a different degree - phenotypical (subclinical), very mild, mild, moderate, severe, profound. Aspiedom has different neurological profiles, sets of symptoms and etiologies. We are neurologically different, but should be one and do not exclude people with other neurological profiles.

The name NLD is used in "silly" way for me. NLD has to be just visual-spatial impairment. Pure NLD can't look autistic for me. Autism is not a neurocognitive profile for me. "Hard", "rigid" autism is not the only form of ASD for me. For me "classic" autism which marked speech delay may have verbal thinking and NLD nad "soft" autism may have adequate speech development and visual thinking.

There any many myths about "disorders of that type" (ASD and "similar"). I do not think that (at least more severe) deficits in theory of mind or central coherence have to appear in all cases of PDD/ASD. PDDs start in early childhood and have social ineptitude and "obsessiveness" in it. High-functioning ones have not intellectual disability and have the ability to use speech to communication.

I named a cluster of PDDs as "hyperlogia" - these are not as rigid as "Kanner's" autism. They have normal development of skills such as speech, some skills may be learned even faster (such as naming of objects, colors; reading). Deficits in ToM, central coherrence and sensory area are rather smaller than in "Kannerism", but it is still a serious and complex developmental disability. Hyperlogia appears to have NLD profile often, probably at most cases (verbal skills more pronounced than nonverbal and verbal style of thinking). But this is not (just) a scholastic problem. It is form of unsuitability to word. Mild hyperlogia is not so bad and inept, but it has large social ineptitude (especially dyssemia), emotional problems, sensory issues, stims and tics etc. It may looks as "normal" child or "just NLD", but "just NLD" is a visual-spatial impairment, not (also) socio-emotional one. Moderate is inept and bizarre, but not "classically" autistic. Severe has also marked "kanneric" influences (such as more literalness, more adherence to sameness), but does not looks so "classically" autistic.

Those with "just NLD" are not dyssemic. They have normal eye contact and normal emotions. Hyperlogia may have different profiles of social needs - some have normal, some restricted and idiosyncratic. Hyperlogia has more abnormal symptoms, NLD is just a visual-spatial learning disorder. "Social NLD" is a subtype of hyperlogia, which is a form of "softer" autism. Hyperlogia appears to be on autism ballpark or even multiple-complex developmental disorder ballpark.

I think that some people do not consider NVLD as ASD due to other etiology and set of symptoms than presented in Kanner's autism. Definition of PDD in ICD-10 excludes many cases of "NLD" from pervasive developmental disorder category.

I have other way of thinking about it. PDD do not require "restricted, repetitive interests and behaviors" for me, also it does not require speech problems or deficits in theory of mind. PDD is just something which make you characteristically "weird" and "odd" and socially inept from childhood. So social NLD is a PDD for me. NLD is not so serious name. LDs are mainly SCHOLASTIC disabilities, PDDs are more GENERAL life impairments than scholastic. Main characteristics of PDD are "weirdness" and "ineptitude" for me. People with "classic" ASD may function higher than ones with "NLD".

I think NVLD can frequently combine with other factors to become a form of autism and may frequently be a comorbid of autism, but in and of itself it's not on the autistic spectrum.

I think that NLD is not about obsessiveness, emotional and thinking pecularities, social ineptitude. And even marked dyssemia (such as very poor eye contact) is not NLD for me. NLD has to mean just visual-spatial developmental disorder, maybe visual-spatial-motor disorder. VSMD is not an ASD or PDD, ASD and PDD has social, emotional and behavioral deficits from early childhood and NLD is just VS(M)D and is other type of disability - mostly scholastic, cognitive. But true VSMD is a form of "phenotypical aucorigia" for me. I want to gather all people with "similar" developmental problems in one group under one term.

I am a nerd to the second power. I am a bookish case of a nerd. I have something which can be named "hyperlogic PDD". I have talent to school learning. I wrote my Math exam perfectly when I was 18. I like maps, liked video and computer games (and even remember many things from them in pictures). But verbal thinking style dominates in me.

I was somewhat "unconscious" about eye contact and even looking at face when I do not know about AS. I have many atypical interests which were once named as "manias". I had atypical rituals, many were just kooky (magical thinking OCD (for me it is also "schizo" symptom when such subtype of OCD occurs) with probably not so good insight). I was described as hyperactive. But I think I have (even not so mild case of) SCT which makes my social and execultive functioning significantly worse despite my fidgeting or stimming, hyperkinetic behaviors. I think that I have some type of "dystechia" (diminishing of technical talents, execultive functioning problems in comparison to general learning ability) due to SCT (which makes a person slow, "spacey", drowsy-like" and prone to daydreaming) and supposed NLD profile (which weakens visual thinking abilities).

So the name NLD is misleading, bad, inadequate. It is an understatement. This name should not be used to describe social, emotional and behavioral problems. I have rather learning "hyperability" than disability. School learning could be really easy and even pleasant for me. I have rather good handwriting. I like handwriting and it was a "routine" for me. I wrote for pleasure. I liked and like to draw things also.

I am not robotic. My mind is not rigid and narrow. But I look at my symptoms and it looks like being a "nerd" (social ineptitude and obsessiveness), "twit" (SCT + NLD profile(?)), "kook" (magical thinking, bizarre fantasies, ideas, thoughts) and "bozo" (inclinations to doing stupid things, being a "clown") at the same time. They made me unsuitable to world, weird, odd, inept, "deviated" and sometimes even contemptible.

I have strange craze about "aucorigia" (which means "aspiedom" for me). Some cases of aspiedom are strangely fascinating for me. People with "aucorigia" who have above-average cognitive ability may be "profoundly" interesting for me. They may become aspie obsession for me.

nca14 ? I like how you write this out and share some of your characteristics and I think I agree with you; but I couldn't figure out how to answer properly for the poll.

I think that the name NVLD is wrong. It may lead to ignorance of the problem. "Pure" NLD is just a learning disorder, such as dyslexia. It is something which impair visual-spatial ability.

Description of something with "silly" "social NVLD" name:

Social NVLD:
· Primary area of difficulty is social skills and difficulties with interpersonal interactions; in pattern recognition terms,
problems with recognizing both
· social and behavourial patterns;
· Problems making and keeping friends; inappropriate social behaviours; lack of understanding of personal space;
difficulty maintaining social conversation; loner personality; fixation on certain topics or interests out of the normal range for their age group; [just AS...]
· Have difficulty reading social cues and non-verbal communication from their visual environment (tone of voice,
facial expression, body language)
· and do not have a strong cache of internalized rules by which to monitor, plan and execute interpersonal interaction;
· Strangely they often score high on social knowledge but do not appear to he able to access these skills when
required in real-life situations?
· can ?talk the talk? but can?t ? walk the walk?;
· They are in turn hard to read because they lack variety in their own nonverbal behaviours; they may appear to be flat,
apathetic, lacking empathy, or even quite unfeeling;

http://non-vld.wikispaces.com/NVLD+Subtypes

It fits me quite well. Much better than "kanneric" autism. I think that "NVLD" traits from Mamen, Maggie. (2007). Understanding Nonverbal Learning Disabilities:A Common Sense Guide For Parents and Professionals are just traits of "soft" autism, a milder type of ASD and PDD, not just a LD. The disorder described in this book has BAD name and is MISCLASSIFIED as just "learning disability". But it is a "serious and complex developmental disability".

The name NVLD is very misused, which is annoying. I want to stop it.

I read about a person who:

- has appreciable gifted child traits,
- started to speak before 10 months,
- read from about 2,5 years old,
- read fiction literature for much older people with understanding when was about 6 - 7 years old,
- was excellent speller
- likes fiction literature very much and studied about literature
- had dyscalculia...

NVLD??? NO! This person is a visual thinker. But loves fiction literature. Looks autistic for me. Even more than me. Severe hyperlogia. And wrote something like this "It may appear that I have severe AS and I am low-functioning"... Exceptional story.

Paradoxically, I:

- am rather a verbal thinker,
- like maps really much,
- like colors, liked video and computer games very much and remember many (also visually) from them,
- fiction literature is and was not so interesting to me,
- I have not dyscalculia - I was sometimes really, really good in Maths...

NVLD? NO. Diagnosed AS. I name this type as soft autism, classic hyperlogia.

"Social NLD" does not exist to me. It is a misname for many socio-emotional-behavioral (SEB) disorders. The name may lead to ignorance of the severity of the disorder!

"Social NLD" is a type of "soft autism" to me, not a learning disorder! I think that I would receive such "stupid" diagnosis in Northern America instead of ASD diagnosis. My main issues are in SEB area, not in scholastic! I am scholatically talented - good in Maths, good in languages, like reading, like maps... Naming me as a case of (especially severe) learning disability would be a paradox! I am rather verstile scholastically, without marked weak points (i was quite poor n Physical Education, but people with AS rather usully are).

NVLD is other groups of symptoms. NVLD is a learning disorder (visual-spatial one).

Autism is developmental socio-emotional-behavioral disorder, which often has many other symptoms, such as sensory issues, "activity" disorders and tend to have atypical cognitive profiles.

Dyssemia is an autistic trait. Especially "marked" type of it, in which someone does not think about looking at face, has strange body language and may look as an "idiot" because of it. Pragmatic issues are also autistic traits. Having visual-spatial learning disorder (NVLD) does not mean that you have to be dyssemic!

I think that people with AS tend to have one of two cognitive profiles:

- "hypervisual" ("hypernonverbal") - tend to have speech delay, good visual tinking and visual memory, language abilities often poor, quite large chance for technical talents; more assocated with "kanneric" type of ASD wchich has severe deficits in theory of mind and central coherence, poor abstract thinking and lteral thinking, poor reading comprehension, "narrow" and "rigid" mind ("hatred" for change, really narrow interests), severe sensory problems (such as wit sounds, lights, textures), characteristic type of stimming, quite large chance for "splinter skills" or eidetic memory

- "hyperverbal" - rather without speech delay and more significant language problems, tend to develop many skills (such as naming of objects and reading) early (even earlier than average "NTs"), has better theory of mind and comprehension, is less rigid, is less prone to have technical talents (more prone to have talents associated with verbal abilities); associated with "hyperlogic" type of ASD, which has rather many (not one of very few) special interests, in some cases it may belong to schizophrenia spectrum (tendency to unusual fantasies and ideas, magical thinking), has peculiar emotionality, may present as giftedness due to marked cognitive strengths (which do not exclude learning disabilities or even really low results in IQ tests (such as PIQ below 70)), social needs may be different - limited, idiosyncratic, but also normal; this group may be often misnamed and misdiagnosed as NVLD

Pennington (1991) ?Rourke took 2 different groups & conflated them

1 group problems with spatial cognition

1 group problem with social emotional

only first group should be called NLD Second group should be on autistic spectrum
Pennington (2009) reviewed NLD again ?in sum, we do not have sufficient evidence to accept it as a valid learning disorder apart from either autism spectrum disorder (ASD), mathematics disorder (MD) or developmental coordination disorder (DCD) all of which are covered in the DSM-IV-TR (ASD in the category of PDDs)? (p. 248).

Palumbo (2001)- hypothesized that AS & NLD could be 2 different subtypes of the same syndrome

Children with Asperger?s Syndrome have more profound social difficulties than children with developmental NLD (Thompson 1997).

NLD & AS could be on a continuum of severity ranging from NLD to Asperger?s and finally autism (Roman, 1998)

http://www.az-ns.org/presentations/Nonv ... ergers.pdf

"NLD" is a type of PDD and ASD not due to etiology, but due to symptomatology. Brains of people with "NLD" function in other way then ones of people with "kannerity".

3. Interpersonal Skills

a. My child often does not get the humor in a joke because he or she interprets everything so literally.

Never/Rarely___ Sometimes____ Often/Always____ I don?t know____

b. When interacting with others my child has difficulty reading the other person?s non-verbal cues, such as tone of voice or facial expression.

Never/Rarely___ Sometimes____ Often/Always____ I don?t know____

c. My child interprets what I say very literally (for example, if I tell my child ?to pick themselves up by his or her bootstraps, they appear confused).

Never/Rarely___ Sometimes____ Often/Always____ I don?t know____

d. My child has difficulty transferring what he or she learns in one social situation to similar social situations. For e.g. my child appears confused when confronted with slight changes in a frequently encountered social situation.

Never/Rarely___ Sometimes____ Often/Always____ I don?t know____


http://www.nldontheweb.org/nldentryleve ... scale.html

They are ASD symptoms!

NVLD is a problematic term. NVLD is visual-spatial-motor disorder (VSMD) which may be a part of more "complex" developmental disorder.

Nonverbal communication impairment (NCI) is problematic issue. It is autistic trait. I think that many people with PDD are misdiagnosed as just NLDers. PDD is so strictly defined in addition.

I think that there may be 3 groups of people with NVLD diagnosis:

1. Pure VSMD may be classified as F83 (mixed specific developmental disorders) in ICD-10. It has scholastic issues (visual-spatial) and motoric. For me it is a phenotypical variant of aucorigia.

2. VSMD + dyssemia is problematic combination. Is it a PDD (F84) or not? Dyssemia may be very destructive. If dyssemia is caused by visual-spatial deficits only, not by "aspiedom", then people with VSMD + NCI may present more like ones with just VSMD than like Aspies. They may do not want to be called Aspies. Aspies tend to have even bigger dyssemia and are somewhat "alien" in the society. VSMD + NCI is too complex developmental mental health problem to be named just a specific developmental disability, but it should not fulfil AS criteria. VSMD + NCI is a type of aucorigia for me, not just a phenotype. It has social ineptitude. Aucorigia does not mean that someone is autistic - it is broad category, it has for example AS and "NVLD" in it. I think that this type of "NVLD" should be calssified as a PDD due to its destructivity caused by marked NCI.

3. VSMD + NCI + bizarrities such as "obsessiveness", weird emotionality, sensory and activity anomalies is a type of PDD (it appear to be something which I called "hyperlogia", "hyperlogic autism"). It may have other etiology than "classic" type of ASD. It has NVLD profile, but is "global mental disability" making somebody unsitable to world (t least in more serious cases) and "original". It is probably often misdiagnosed as just "learning disability" in Northern America. Learning disability is then only one of the group of symptoms - it is serious and complex developmental disability. It is some sort of "multiple-complex developmental disorder" due to variety of emotional (sometimes also thinking which may make it belonging to schizophrenia spectrum), "autistic" and neuorological disturbances. It is a type of Asperger's and ASD, but has probably other brains that people from "kanneric" spectrum. Learning may be not the biggest issue in it. I have such a profile and read about people who have similar symptoms. Scholastic learning was my... really strong point, so naming me as a case of more serious learning disability would be a paradox! It is good example of aucorigia. And having VSMD does not exclude having "classic" ASD. "Hyperlogia" is a type of PDD. "Hyperlogia" is "oververbality", it causes normal or even faster speech development, reading development and relatively good language skills (not always in pragmatic area); it is also less "rigid" than classic autism, it may look like "disturbed" giftedness, but it is less suitable to world than average child and "normal" gifted child, who is more suitable to world than an average child... And not all people with hyperlogia have to have above-average IQ. It does not exclude learning disabilities, but exclude larger "kanneric" imprint. It can be mixed with "kanneric" traits.

1. Not a PDD
2. Appear like "borderline" PDD, I would classify it as a PDD
3. A class of PDDs

PDD is weirder, more inept generally. Developmental NCI is a trait of PDD. Sensory issues can be also. Dyssemia is a large issue. It may make you looking like an "idiot". PDD tend to have more problems caused by NCI (worse eye contact, gesture use, facial expression).

http://www.nldline.com/dinklage.htm

Social/Emotional Issues

ˇ Peer relations are typically the greatest area of impairment; child may play with much older or younger children rather than with same age peers, where they must manage give and take.

ˇ People with NLVD often lack basic social skills: they may stand too close, stare inappropriately or not make eye contact, have marked lack of concern over appearance, be oblivious to others? reactions, change topics idiosyncratically.

ˇ Children with NLVD are seen as ?odd? children who ?just don?t get it? socially. They may do better with adults, where they act dependent and immature, but may not be seen as ?odd.?

ˇ They may show poorly modulated affect, not matched to verbal content.

ˇ Lack of empathy and social judgment may shield them from fully experiencing the hurt of peer rejection, while the same factors increase the likelihood of being rejected.

ˇ History of unusual thinking can often be obtained: rituals, stereotypic behaviors, rigid routines, and magical/bizarre beliefs.

It is a PDD/type of autism by itself! It is not normal. Naming such an aucorigia as a "learning disability" is just silly! It is ignorance. It is too complex socio-emotional problem to be just a "learning disorder".

A. NVLD can be conceptualized as an imbalance in thinking skills ? intact linear, detail oriented, automatic processing with impaired appreciation of the big picture, gestalt or underlying theme.

B. It is not nearly as common as language-based learning disabilities, but this may be a phenomenon created by environmental demands (i.e., our societal demands for precision skills in reading assure that even the most subtle language-based LD cases are identified).

C. Typically social/psychiatric concerns are raised before academic problems are identified.

D. While the overlap is not complete, NVLD children may meet the criteria for Pervasive Developmental Disorder ? Not Otherwise Specified (PDD-NOS), Asperger?s Disorder, or Schizotypal Personality.

"Nonverbal learning disorder" - just palatable name for a PDD. It is too serious and complex developmental disability to benamed as just LD. It should be in "F84" (PDDs) in ICD. "Weirdness" is not imbalance in thinking skills!

In ICD-11 there should be a PDD category fore something misleadingly named now as "nonverbal learning disorder". NLD is just a visual-spatial-motor disorder. It is a disability by itself, but PDD is something more - it is developmental "weirdness" and unsuitability to world, not (just) a scholastic difficulty!

"Pure NVLD" is not "nerdy" disorder. "Developmental nerds" are "classic" aucorigians, in them aucocontrast and originality is the most visible. "Nerd" has intelligence and social ineptitude, but also obsessiveness and (or) emotional peculiarities. NVLD has not them by itself.

Such a dyssemia like in Dinklage's article is PDDish trait, not LDish. Problematic developmental dyssemia - abbreviation is PDD Marked dyssemia is the most PDDish trait for me, but someone with a PDD may not have it for me.

I am a nerd. I have much obsessiveness and emotional pecularities, social ineptitude also. But I am not so "rigid", "restricted" and "inflexible". So I think that I would be diagnosed as LDer, not PDDer or ASDer in North America because I was too flexible!

Another my observation: the current definition of PDD is too strict. PDD is developmental combination of social ineptitude and weirdness (such as obsessiveness and peculiar emotionality), restricted and stereotyped interests or activities should not be necessary.

Asperger's Disorder (AD) is characterized by:

A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction, including:

Failure to use non-verbal social skills (i.e. eye contact, gestures, body posture, facial expressions).

Developmentally inappropriate peer relationships.

Lack of spontaneous sharing of enjoyment and interests with other people.

Lack of social and emotional reciprocity.

B. Restricted, repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities:

Preoccupation that is overly intense and narrow.

Inflexible adherence to non-functional or peripheral routines.

Stereotypic or repetitive motor movements.

Persistent preoccupation with parts of objects.

C. These problems taken together (A plus B) present significant challenges in the lives of people with AD as they attempt to live in a ?neurotypical? world and meet the expectations of others.

D. There is no general language delay.

E. There is no severe global cognitive impairment.

Were my preoccupations narrow in my childhood? I was interested in reading many things (such as newspapers, books about children (not fiction literature), plants, encyclopedias, cookbook, manual), liked documentary films... It is not so narrow (maybe?), rather "adult-like" but may be also (paradoxically) immature. I had rather wide range of "special" interests. Were my adherence to bizarre customs "inflexible"? I avoid some "normal" things consequently because of my weird thinking (such as being in some vehicles). I do not have classical ASD. I had traits of a gifted child, but I look as a parody of a gifted child. Weirdness and being "singular" (also in negative sense) is not giftedness!

I read Maggie Mamen's text about "social NLD". It looks for me like good description of significantly "nerdy" child. She wrote about a type of "nerd syndrome", not a learning disability. I think that it fits me quite good. But it is clearly a sort of aucorigia. There was about "loner personality" and "fixations on some topics or interests"... It looks... hmm... autistic... It is a description of a mild PDD to me. The name "social NLD" looks potty to me. It should never be used, it causes confusion. Why someone coined such silly name like "social NLD"? Better to name it as developmental "nerdiness"... I might have serious OCD due to "NVLD case". I think that I should fight with such a terminology. For me the name "social NLD" is wrong. It is misleading. Why "fixations of certain topics or interests" became symptoms of a learning disability? I think that the name "social NLD" is nonsense.

I have doubts about my condition. Have I PDD or not? I can have "obsessions" about certain words(?), perseverations on unusual topics. Paradoxical laughter ("parlau") and inadequate shame ("inasha") are Aspergian symptoms for me associated with peculiar emotionality. I read about Aspergian type of sexuality disorder - I may be a bookish case of it! Aspies may have also other shameful group of symptoms which have "psychopathic" appearance - I also had some of them. I do not feel the need of being loved so much.

Are my "fixations" "NLD" symptoms? I think that I have something more than "social NLD". I may think that I have "S-NLD" and intellectual giftedness. I have (rather) flexible mentality. But it may be illusion. Someone may have just "nerd syndrome", but not be "kooky" as I. "Nerd syndrome" appear to be flexible. It has problematic developmental dyssemia and fixated interests. I think that Maggie Mamen described (a) "nerd syndrome", but it is misnamed in her book.

Here is an article about "NLD with Asperger syndrome features": http://www.google.pl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... 2063,d.bGQ (long link)

Here is about a boy who was about 11 and has ADHD (combined type). He had marked AS symptoms, such as hand flapping, special interest (in dinosaurs), one-sided conversating, noise hypersensitivity. There was such a fragment in this article:

Family history was positive for autism (paternal side) and ADHD (maternal side). Possible learning disability(paternal side) was also noted, but I did not secure information about the type of learning disability.

I think that the boy may inherit autistic and ADHD traits from parents. I think that the boy has at least "subclinical" Asperger's/ASD, it means that he is an Aspie for me (I do not want to be offensive, parents did not want Asperger's diagnosis for him). He had rich imagination (fantasy friend). It looks as a trait of McDD. I think that his ADHD (combined type) may be larger problem than NLD.

I think that marked dyssemia, special interests, OCD, "stimmability", social dysreciprocity, sensory problems and emotional pecularities are NOT NLD symptoms, but a traits of "general developmental difference" (GDD) - my neologism. GDD makes a person "odd", "weird" and "inept" since childhood, it tends to have atypical cognitive profiles (such as larger dominaton of verbal or nonverbal learning style), but it usually has social, emotional, behavioral and sensory anomalies. I think that many people with GDD are misdiagnosed as just learning disabled people or AD(H)Ders.

The case of NVLD is a large worry for me. I do not know what I have... AS, "NLD" or something other? My problems are mainly in social, emotional and behavioral area. I do not perceive myself as a "kanneric" autist. Verbal thinking, verbatim memory are my strengths. I do not feel learning disordered. I learned how to ride a bike when I was about 5. It is early as for an Aspie. I may have some lerning anomalies (VQ may be significantly higher than PIQ), I have not "classic" technical abilities, but verbal thinking style is very useful in school, I do not have to learn so much. It made my life earlier. I have not so good visual memory (especially not "eidetic" one).

I do not think that "NLD syndrome" is a learning disorder. I think that it is a serious and complex developmental disorder. It is a type of general developmental difference (GDD), not a "specific" one, such as dyslexia or even ADHD. It is also not an IQ-based condition, such as intellectual disability. GDDs may occur with all levels of intelligence - from profound ID to profound giftedness. Social, emotional and behavioral anomalies are most characteristic traits of GDDs. They also tend to have activity, sensory and cognitive atypcalities. GDD make a person "weird", "odd" and less suitable to world, even when they occur with very hgh IQ.

"Social learning disability" is an autistic trait, a cluster of PDD symptoms. The term NVLD is confusing. It is used in very misleadingly way. It may be "annoying" for me. "Nonverbal learning disorder" is bad name for a pervasive developmental disorder. Many symptoms of "NLD syndrome" are for me PDD symptoms and traits. The term NVLD should never be used to describe disorder which cause marked social problems, peculiar emotionality and behavioral patterns. Strict definition of PDD/ASD is another problem. I read about many Aspies in Polish AS forum and I think that they have different cases of the same condition. Not all of them may meet DSM-V or even ICD-10 criteria of AS(D)/PDD, but for me they are Aspies/Acorians. I think that they have one condition which has many sets of symptoms, many neuropsychological profiles. The word "Aspie" is cute and nice. It means not only a person with diagnosable Asperger's, but for example also people with subclinical ASDs. Many people with "NVLD" are for me definately Aspies. Aspies should not be viewed as "robotic-like" people with very rigid thinking. These Aspies are for me more "classic" Autistics than Aspies. For me the most typical Aspies are people with "NVLD-like" disorders (oververbal "acorias" which are another types of PDDs) or with broader autism phenotype (or very mild ASD) than people with significant "classic" ASD who have rigid thinking and very poor theory of mind.

I read an article in which threre was written about 20 NLD children who met the criteria of ADHD... Interesting... Restlessness, problems with attention are not symptoms of a learning disorder.

I do not like when people use the name NLD to describe socio-emotional disorder. "NLD" itself is a PDD for me. It is not a learning disorder - it is complex developmental disability. "NLD" is a type of pervasive developmental "idiosyncracy". It has to be categorised as a PDD, such as autism.

The name NLD is used in wrong way. It is irritating. Why so many people accept it?