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Myrtonos
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16 Dec 2021, 7:41 am

A lot of people on the spectrum, maybe most of the ones diagnosed, are resistant to change. Is it true that many vehemently disagree with changing anything for illogical reasons?



AngelL
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16 Dec 2021, 8:47 am

Myrtonos wrote:
Is it true that many vehemently disagree with changing anything for illogical reasons?


I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but this is certainly true for me. This may not be the best example but I pulled this example from the memory bin in a conversation with my occupational therapist two days ago: Perhaps thirty years or so ago, the United States implemented the first mandatory seat belt laws. It seemed that everyone in the country was angry about what they perceived to be a serious overreach and infringement on personal freedoms. I was as well. I agreed with nearly every argument that had been made at the time regarding why it was a horrible idea. During the first year the law was in effect, I'd say at least 80% of everyone who offered an opinion on the matter said they would NEVER be forced into wearing a seatbelt. Thirty years later, I'm the only one I know still not wearing it.

My OT put it better than I did. She said, you're willing to re-evaluate if new information arises, but since you concluded it was wrong logically instead of emotionally - you're not going to 'get over it' no matter how much time passes.



shortfatbalduglyman
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16 Dec 2021, 9:49 am

"Logic could be used to justify anything"

As an autist, I cope badly and wrongly and slowly to even the slightest change, even positive ones

But not all autistics are similar to me in that way



Fnord
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16 Dec 2021, 9:55 am

I do not like surprises.  Mrs. Fnord gives me advance warning and tells me to "act surprised" around my birthday.



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16 Dec 2021, 10:43 am

Myrtonos wrote:
Is it true that many vehemently disagree with changing anything for illogical reasons?
Changing things for illogical reasons sounds like a bad idea.

If I have settled on a certain routine, specific technique, proper location it is because it works well. Why disrupt something that works well?


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Edna3362
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16 Dec 2021, 11:16 am

I, for one, usually don't even mind illogical changes.
Why?? Mostly because I have to.
I'm in a place where can't afford the trait of being intolerant of lacking consistent routines and rules.

Routines here won't truly lasts, at all. Except changes itself as a routine.

So I expect any sort of changes and outright unpredictability on daily basis.
And so I chose to become one with it, and make out the most of it as responsibly and reliably possible.


Disruptive and sudden changes, mostly born out of irresponsibility, however, is another class of it's own.


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Joe90
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16 Dec 2021, 11:52 am

I don't understand what you mean. Could you clarify in simpler terms?


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Phoenix2
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16 Dec 2021, 12:33 pm

I'm resistant to change, especially for illogical reasons. I was told this was my "rigidity" coming out. My family says I act like a senior citizen in that I'm set in my ways...but for me when I like something, or like something a certain way, I come to expect it. I am the same way with things I buy - if I find something I like, I buy loads of the same thing. I sometimes will experiment to find something I like, but once I get myself set on stuff I don't change it. Even when I'm eating I'm like that - for example when I order a shawarma rap, it always has to have chicken, lettuce, onions, cucumbers, and black olives, with no sauce (I can't stand squishy substances because of sensory issues and there rarely are smooth sauces).... So bottom line is I don't like change at all, especially if it's illogical.



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17 Dec 2021, 2:22 am

I didn't see the seat belt law as an illogical chance. I reckoned the logic was that the insurance companies, run by rich people, wanted to reduce the claims so they'd get more profit, so they got the government to change the law for them, and the government complied because they're mostly there to look after the rich. I saw it as rather unjust, but felt there wasn't much I could do about it. It wasn't much of a change at the time because I didn't ride about in cars very often.

But I'd get angry every time I pulled the belt too fast against the inertia lock (to put the thing on) and had to slow down to get it to unlock and play out the required length of belt. I'd also get angry when it was awkward finding the half of the buckle that was attached to the seat. Later on in life when my sensory issues got worse I'd get angry when the belt was too tight, but I fixed that with a small clip that limits the tightening to whatever I feel is best for me. And I learned to find the elusive half of the buckle and to avoid pulling the belt too fast.

So it's rather more complicated than me remaining forever furious at a change I see as illogical. Generally speaking I feel pretty upset at most changes when they're first inflicted on me. If they don't seem logical / justifiable then I usually feel somewhat worse, but it's more to do with how inconvenient to me the change seems rather than how logical I think it is. I seem to get uncommonly annoyed at unexpected obstacles to anything I'm trying to do. Often I can see why somebody needed to inflict a change on me, but that doesn't make it much easier to bear, in fact it can make it harder to express my anger because I can't credibly take the moral high ground. I view authorities with quite a lot of suspicion and disdain, so if they issue an edict that inconveniences me then I tend to resent it for all time, and wouldn't internalise it like an authoritarian might. But how quickly and well I calm down again depends on how quickly and well I manage to apply coping / resisting strategies, on how quickly I can get used to the new situation if it can't be resisted.

Compulsory seat belts may be a little more justifiable in the UK, because our health service is underfunded and oversubscribed, so anybody who takes an avoidable risk of needing treatment in hospital is potentially hurting the health service.

Excuse the long answer. It turned out to be a more complicated matter than I thought it would be, once I started to think about it.



Myrtonos
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21 Dec 2021, 5:24 pm

AngelL wrote:
I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but this is certainly true for me. This may not be the best example but I pulled this example from the memory bin in a conversation with my occupational therapist two days ago: Perhaps thirty years or so ago, the United States implemented the first mandatory seat belt laws. It seemed that everyone in the country was angry about what they perceived to be a serious overreach and infringement on personal freedoms. I was as well. I agreed with nearly every argument that had been made at the time regarding why it was a horrible idea. During the first year the law was in effect, I'd say at least 80% of everyone who offered an opinion on the matter said they would NEVER be forced into wearing a seatbelt. Thirty years later, I'm the only one I know still not wearing it.

Keep in mind that you are still not able to put on a seatbelt on a lot of buses and especially when travelling on a rail vehicle such as a train or a light rail vehicle.

Actually, the first mandatory seat belt laws where in my country, Australia - Victoria was the first state to introduce that.



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21 Dec 2021, 5:34 pm

Myrtonos wrote:
A lot of people on the spectrum, maybe most of the ones diagnosed, are resistant to change. Is it true that many vehemently disagree with changing anything for illogical reasons?


I think all people should be resistant to change for illogical reasons. Society likes to tell us change is good and inevitable, but this is usually businesses or governments getting people to do things they don't want. Like more work for the same money. Yet, cancer is change, and society says we should always treat that, because it helps the economy.

Really, life is change, but that doesn't mean we don't all need consistency. Our ancestors needed consistent seasons and other factors for hunting and gathering, or we wouldn't be here. I also hate changes to things I rely on to live and function. I like a steady work routine, eat repetitive meals, and do other things in specific order so I don't have to think about a million factors, and I can live. This allows me to let change into other areas of my life. For example, I always like cycling through interests and the different phases (such as with music) I would go through. I also think some of our repetitive behavior isn't about doing the same thing over and over. I could watch one movie every night for a week, because to me each viewing is different--part of an emotional arc or experience. But, to someone else it just looks like boring, repetitive behavior.

I think people on the spectrum get labelled this way because they need more rigid routines to balance out sensory overload. And NTs don't really get this easily. But it's not like NT people say, "Hey I just met someone who hates eye contact and only talks at length about very specific interests. What a great change compared to what I'm used to!" They also like, and need, what they can count on.



AngelL
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21 Dec 2021, 5:57 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
I didn't see the seat belt law as an illogical chance. I reckoned the logic was that the insurance companies, run by rich people, wanted to reduce the claims so they'd get more profit, so they got the government to change the law for them, and the government complied because they're mostly there to look after the rich. I saw it as rather unjust, but felt there wasn't much I could do about it. It wasn't much of a change at the time because I didn't ride about in cars very often.


It wasn't the insurance companies. It was the New York State governor. His father got into an accident and was ejected through the windshield and flew to his death. The governor was informed that he would still be alive if he had been wearing a seatbelt. The governor then has a bill written and loudly and publicly told the state legislature than anyone who didn't vote for said bill, he would make it his mission in life to destroy their political ambitions. So, it became law. Further, they promised that the law would NEVER be used to pull you over. It would only ever be something they could cite you for if they pulled you over for something else. About half the people in the country bought that last part.



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21 Dec 2021, 5:59 pm

Even when things change for the positive it stresses me out ALOT.



AngelL
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21 Dec 2021, 6:01 pm

Myrtonos wrote:
Keep in mind that you are still not able to put on a seatbelt on a lot of buses and especially when travelling on a rail vehicle such as a train or a light rail vehicle.


Right. My grandkids are on a school bus every day without seatbelts, ostensibly because kids bounce off windshields better than adults, I guess.



shortfatbalduglyman
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21 Dec 2021, 6:39 pm

lvpin wrote:
Even when things change for the positive it stresses me out ALOT.

---------------------------------

Not all impacts are:

Direct
Immediate
Visible
Physical
Obvious

Some changes appear positive but they are negative

Some changes appear negative but they are positive

You can't measure quality

Something could be good for one person and bad for a different person



AngelL
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21 Dec 2021, 6:49 pm

shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
Not all impacts are:

Direct
Immediate
Visible
Physical
Obvious


Well said. At this moment, I am wearing a t-shirt. The caption around a picture of a pair of dog tags says, "Not all wounds are physical; not all scars are visible"