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Nades
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09 Jan 2022, 1:16 pm

https://blog.theautismsite.greatergood.com/infantilization-autism/

This is an interesting little read about autistics being infantilized. I see it far, far to often from parents and wider society in general.

Self fulfilling prophecy it often is indeed. The numbers of aspies hanging from their mothers apron strings while still packing at least high school education is nauseating. Why 25 year olds haven't been taught to use a bus and why they themselves seemingly haven't decided to try it on their own is a mystery.



Levermonkey
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09 Jan 2022, 3:19 pm

I'm not going to address the autists not being able to use the bus because that is irrelevant as we do not know the capabilities of the individual.

Have I been treated like a child and spoken to like I'm a baby?
Not by friends, colleagues, and family members.
By strangers who don't know me? God yes. I've even had "Does he take sugar?" moments.
Does it absolutely boil my piss? You can have no idea. The unfortunate thing is that I can get so angry that my attempts to keep my rage under control can render me situationally non-vocal. It is so frustrating.



txfz1
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09 Jan 2022, 3:34 pm

I read the title as Autistic Infanticidization.



WanderingAengus
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09 Jan 2022, 6:58 pm

Nades wrote:
The numbers of aspies hanging from their mother's apron strings while still packing at least high school education is nauseating. Why 25-year-olds haven't been taught to use a bus and why they themselves seemingly haven't decided to try it on their own is a mystery.


Yeah, definitely couldn't come down to the fact that they suffer from a developmental disorder. Totally mysterious.



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09 Jan 2022, 8:18 pm

I'm not convinced that the majority of ASDers are failing to realise their full potential (whatever that may mean) as a result of underestimating their strengths. Of course it's always worth considering, when contemplating a venture, that you may be stronger than you imagine. In the same way it's worth considering that you may be getting overconfident. I suppose the trick is to try to take reasonable risks.

There's an old thread somewhere about the same issue by the same OP I think. It became polemical, went on for many pages, and nothing was ever resolved. Most contributors didn't agree with the notion, if I remember right.



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09 Jan 2022, 10:24 pm

Article's just another typical writing of "the obvious and what it can be done" for me.

From the linked article wrote:
Society’s view on disability—whether physical, intellectual, or developmental—is one of incapability. As a result, those with autism and other disabilities can often be seen as innocent, dependent upon others, deserving of pity, and overall, less than others—less capable, less intelligent…just plain less. This may lead to a society that treats them in condescending and patronizing ways.


And who's not being taught how to take a bus by themselves?

That can go from either ways:
Of pressuming incompetence (not bothered to be taught because it is assumed it cannot be understood by being too dumb)

AND pressuming competence (not bothered to be taught because it is assumed one can figure themselves out by being too smart -- EF/learning and psychiatric issues be damned).

Both can be a form of laziness from either parties. :lol: Not going in-between, no real changes, generalizing and doing usuals over the effort to know the individual...


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10 Jan 2022, 1:46 am

Yeah different to what I originally thought the post title meant. I am pretty useless planning a decent journey with multiple changes etc unless it’s clearly planned and outlined so I’ll often take the same routes or journey the exact same way as I easily get confused.



Nades
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10 Jan 2022, 2:13 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
I'm not convinced that the majority of ASDers are failing to realise their full potential (whatever that may mean) as a result of underestimating their strengths. Of course it's always worth considering, when contemplating a venture, that you may be stronger than you imagine. In the same way it's worth considering that you may be getting overconfident. I suppose the trick is to try to take reasonable risks.

There's an old thread somewhere about the same issue by the same OP I think. It became polemical, went on for many pages, and nothing was ever resolved. Most contributors didn't agree with the notion, if I remember right.


Yip. It got derailed pretty quickly. It's just that this article was summing the same but obviously being written by someone who isn't me will cause less triggering.

I think the reality is, unless someone has severe ASD, they can probably perform all the basics tasks someone without ASD can do.



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10 Jan 2022, 3:05 am

I see the article has a different angle on it, being more about the way some people talk down to Aspies. So yes, it's likely to be more palatable.

I haven't experienced a lot of it myself. There was a bit of it from my family when I was young (though I wasn't diagnosed then), occasionally it'd be "oh, he'll never manage that," but by and large they knew I wasn't weak or stupid. And my parents were needlessly protective and tended to carry me and my sister around a little too much. But not enough to tie either of us to their apron strings for life, I loved independence and grabbed it whenever I got the chance.



Nades
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10 Jan 2022, 3:29 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
I see the article has a different angle on it, being more about the way some people talk down to Aspies. So yes, it's likely to be more palatable.

I haven't experienced a lot of it myself. There was a bit of it from my family when I was young (though I wasn't diagnosed then), occasionally it'd be "oh, he'll never manage that," but by and large they knew I wasn't weak or stupid. And my parents were needlessly protective and tended to carry me and my sister around a little too much. But not enough to tie either of us to their apron strings for life, I loved independence and grabbed it whenever I got the chance.


Same with my parents. I wish they taught me a little more as a kid but they never really doubted my abilities. Overall, others treating my like a kid rarely happens but when it does it gets irritating.

I think another problem is the unspoken and sometimes explicit rule of never being able to question another's capability that has developed over the last couple of decades. Assuming everyone is perfectly able is idiotic obviously, but the other extreme is also just as problematic and I've seen aspies exploit others knowing that they can never be called out on it.



Nades
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10 Jan 2022, 5:25 am

Edna3362 wrote:
Article's just another typical writing of "the obvious and what it can be done" for me.

From the linked article wrote:
Society’s view on disability—whether physical, intellectual, or developmental—is one of incapability. As a result, those with autism and other disabilities can often be seen as innocent, dependent upon others, deserving of pity, and overall, less than others—less capable, less intelligent…just plain less. This may lead to a society that treats them in condescending and patronizing ways.


And who's not being taught how to take a bus by themselves?

That can go from either ways:
Of pressuming incompetence (not bothered to be taught because it is assumed it cannot be understood by being too dumb)

AND pressuming competence (not bothered to be taught because it is assumed one can figure themselves out by being too smart -- EF/learning and psychiatric issues be damned).

Both can be a form of laziness from either parties. :lol: Not going in-between, no real changes, generalizing and doing usuals over the effort to know the individual...


It's important to take a neutral stance. Assuming someone is disabled and never being able to question the extent of their abilities is just as bad as assuming everyone is perfectly capable and never questioning the extent of someone's disabilities.

I used the bus example for a reason. Years ago I was in a group of aspies. This one woman wanted her tablet fixed and gave it to another aspie. When she wanted it back she made it clear she wasn't going to pick it up and said aspie had to make the trip to her house to give it to her in person. The woman in question has been using public transport for decades with her family and when asked if she could make the trip by herself to pick it up, (a reasonable question and expectation) she went nuts.

Behaviour like this happens quite often towards me. Another person wanted me to take her to the local corner shop and she had just moved into the area and was anxious to leave home....the drive for me? 2.5 hours one way ​just so she didn't have to walk a few hundred yards.

Learned helplessness from others helping her far to often? exploitation? A bit of both? Who knows.



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10 Jan 2022, 8:01 am

Aspies can have developmental delays. Often this is just an understandable reaction to discomfort.

Most people will avoid things that make them uncomfortable. If Aspies are more sensitive, they will likely avoid more things. If taking the bus is uncomfortable, learning how to use the bus may be put off as long as possible.



Nades
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10 Jan 2022, 2:16 pm

timf wrote:
Aspies can have developmental delays. Often this is just an understandable reaction to discomfort.

Most people will avoid things that make them uncomfortable. If Aspies are more sensitive, they will likely avoid more things. If taking the bus is uncomfortable, learning how to use the bus may be put off as long as possible.


Pretty much. Aspies are very nervous and uncomfortable people and occasionally will be more than happy to exploit others to ensure they don't have do what makes them anxious or uncomfortable.

Being anxieties from someone with autism, they seem to regularly stray into over the top and irrational which ironically makes others assume they have the capabilities of a child.

Being rational about excessive anxiety over a task and actual capacity to perform that task seems to be one of the biggest weaknesses of people with ASD. Putting off such tasks is the worst coping mechanism I can imagine



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10 Jan 2022, 2:31 pm

Nades wrote:
Edna3362 wrote:
Article's just another typical writing of "the obvious and what it can be done" for me.

From the linked article wrote:
Society’s view on disability—whether physical, intellectual, or developmental—is one of incapability. As a result, those with autism and other disabilities can often be seen as innocent, dependent upon others, deserving of pity, and overall, less than others—less capable, less intelligent…just plain less. This may lead to a society that treats them in condescending and patronizing ways.


And who's not being taught how to take a bus by themselves?

That can go from either ways:
Of pressuming incompetence (not bothered to be taught because it is assumed it cannot be understood by being too dumb)

AND pressuming competence (not bothered to be taught because it is assumed one can figure themselves out by being too smart -- EF/learning and psychiatric issues be damned).

Both can be a form of laziness from either parties. :lol: Not going in-between, no real changes, generalizing and doing usuals over the effort to know the individual...


It's important to take a neutral stance. Assuming someone is disabled and never being able to question the extent of their abilities is just as bad as assuming everyone is perfectly capable and never questioning the extent of someone's disabilities.

I used the bus example for a reason. Years ago I was in a group of aspies. This one woman wanted her tablet fixed and gave it to another aspie. When she wanted it back she made it clear she wasn't going to pick it up and said aspie had to make the trip to her house to give it to her in person. The woman in question has been using public transport for decades with her family and when asked if she could make the trip by herself to pick it up, (a reasonable question and expectation) she went nuts.

Behaviour like this happens quite often towards me. Another person wanted me to take her to the local corner shop and she had just moved into the area and was anxious to leave home....the drive for me? 2.5 hours one way ​just so she didn't have to walk a few hundred yards.

Learned helplessness from others helping her far to often? exploitation? A bit of both? Who knows.

Pathological demand avoidance perhaps?
It's common in AS. It may even be related to it.

It's also something I can't relate. Like anxiety.


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10 Jan 2022, 2:33 pm

Which comes first: The infantile behavior or being infantilized?



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10 Jan 2022, 2:43 pm

Fnord wrote:
Which comes first: The infantile behavior or being infantilized?


Jesus wrote:
Image
Truly I tell you, unless you turn and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.


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