what is theory of mind?

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Ive tried reading the wikipedia article on theory of mind but don't really understand what it is about. Is there any threads on wrong planet about theory of mind? I haven't been able to find any yet, still need to do more research! If anybody knows of any threads, it would be greatly appreicated if you could post some replies with the links.

thanks

It is the ability to be aware of other's minds as seperate to your own and also to be able to see yourself ojectively.

It is an ability that we are supposed to lack but in reality most adults on the spectrum have theory of mind at some level.

With me, I can tend to forget that other people's minds are different from mine when it comes to passing on information. I have often assumed that people know what I know simply by virtue of the fact that it is in my mind; I assume that, because I know something others must too (they don't ~ you have to tell them).

This could be seen as a slight impairment in 'Theory of Mind'

i think its your minds eyes, apparently i dont have one so i talk to myself

Simply it a theory that tries to explain why we have difficulty understanding and being understood by NT. ToM is something that NTs are supposed to have and were more lacking in.

In a 'lower functioning' autie it is supposed to be fairly common that if they do something say break a vase that they would not be aware they need to tell somebody about it, because they don't have the concept that anyone wouldn't already know. That is exaggerated of cause. One example that is often used to illustrate it is some thing like: Sally and Bob both have two boxes and sally has her favourite ball, which she puts away in her box. Sally leaves to do something else. Bob really wants sally's ball so he takes it and puts it in his box. The question is where would should sally look for her ball? Well the right answer is in her own box. Well that is a bit dumb because you know it is in Bobs box. It is irrelevant whether she knows; she still needs to look in Bob's box. So I probably confused you some more lol. But I am aware that others don’t know what I’m thinking when I actually consciously think about it, but you’ll be surprised how often I think people know or I’ve already told them when I merely thought about it myself. One school report it said in my stories I wrote, I assumed that people were following my train of thought and I got angry when the teacher said it didn't make sense. Anyway it also boils down to the fact that we are less aware of what make others tick and what they know, or even not as focused as we should on it. Consequently we misread people, or upset them sometimes.

Sounds like a good name for a rock band "Theory of Mind".

85 percent of the rest of the world has one shared theroy.

...
.....
........

And Then There Is You.

out in the cold, be damned.
rare token of some inside joke you will never quite get.....but will hypothesize about..
ugly,
alone,
oblivious,
FREE

um...my appologees...the author is not feeling quite......right....more of a left really. really really. no serious. that is what I mean.

Wow So that is what that means and that makes so much sense now. Now i understand why project managers would tell me to assume my survey assistant knows nothing and tell him what to do. i could never really graspe that concept because i expected the assistant to have a little understanding of surveying and be able to take some initiative to do some things on there own without having to be told everything to do. There was many times i expected them to know what i was thinking and be able to know were i wanted them to go without being told. It lead to many survey assistants not wanting to work with me and most of them eventually quit. They eventually moved me into the office to a plan checking job which became less stressful for me.

Hopefully my personal example proves that i now understand theory of mind.

In essence, ToM means, "If I know something, then why don't you?" I am mindblind in a neurotypical world of mind readers, and they know. In Greek the word 'aut' means mind and this is where I live and can only observe outside - I cannot really 'know' another's thought, expression, motive, intent, feelings, etc. I am without pretense; I have no forward thinking - really naive. I find NTs to often be deceptive and I am honest to a fault. NTs tend to insert meaning where it does not exist. I tend to forget another cannot know what I am thinking! I cannot decipher social cues. I interact by choreographed cues and mimicry. I am a high-functioning autistic, certainly, but I am 100% autistic, whereas many, maybe even most, in this forum consider themselves only mildly autistic. I do appreciate and recognize this way of being, but I am not. I am designated as an Aspie only because I am cognitively advanced. I have sensory integration disorder(s) too, but that's separate from the topic of ToM.

There's versions of the ToM test - same principle though. 0_equals_true: It's Sally and Anne with a marble and basket, bowl, respectively! same concepts. Remember, dalhousie12, this is precisely why autistics are naturally scientist and artists (re: lack of ToM)! This 'deficit' is not necessarily wrong, just different. However, many do think it's wrong, irrational, immature, etc. Does this help? The concept is not really tangible but with real consequences.

Oh, I forgot: Theory of Mind develops in neurotypical children definitively between the age of 4.5 to 5 years. I guess I was absent that day......

only .......
you see..
I've been drinking...

and only NTs understand me when I've been drinking...


you are AMAZING!

Of course,
I understood NOTHING you replied....

SPY!

j/k nudge nudge wink wink

I'm glad once again for another WHAT IS THEORY OF OTHER MINDS?

I will one up the question. WHY IS IT theory of other minds, instead of FACT OF OTHER MINDS?

That is the strangest thing I have ever heard in my life.

I hate having to explain my train of thought... zero patience for people who can't see where I'm going with stuff.
Really hard raising kids... I keep forgetting they don't already know what I know.

Thanks for all your replies!

it will take me a few more times reading them and thinking very hard about it to get a better understanding. I look foward to the moment that it becomes crystal clear.

Are Nt's usually pretty good at finishing each other's sentences as they can read the other persons mind and see were there going with their thought? Or is it the other way around? This is something ive never thought about or never occurred to me but is it consider rude to finish one's thought?

I haven't read that theory [of mind]....

LabPet, I liked your explanation of ToM; I also liked how you brought up the cognitive impairment in those who have autistic disorder (compared to Asperger); which is one of the main differences between the two (most people who're genuinely autistic have marked impairment in one or a number of areas).