ASD adults and aggression - thoughts?

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I'm wondering if anyone has a certain viewpoint on whether ASD/HFA or "Aspie" adults tend to be more aggressive? The article below seems to spell it out well at first, saying they're no more likely than anyone else to have aggressive tendencies, but then due to mistreatment and involuntary isolation, it can boil over so to speak.

https://kennethrobersonphd.com/aggressi ... aspergers/

But then, I read on, and thought wait a minute...maybe this is just one of those "Aspie-bashing" sites, that can't remain objective. Since it says THIS:

" Adults with Asperger’s tend to have a limited ability to understand context or to “see the big picture.” Instead, they process information in parts rather than the whole, or think about things in the smallest possible units. Associated with such a narrow focus is a tendency to separate and compartmentalize thoughts, feelings, and behavior. Doing so allows someone to act aggressively while disassociating oneself from the act itself as if it had not occurred and/or is not as harmful as it actually is.

A result is a person who believes himself to be a law-abiding, rule-following person while at the same time acting in an anti-social manner,..."

That description strikes me more as someone who's a deluded ASPD person, or a malignant narcissist.
Yes, it is true that we have trouble with parts-to-whole thinking and "not seeing the forest for the trees", or deficiencies in central coherence... but not in the manner described, IMO.

Where I could see the "parts problem" manifesting in a seeming act of aggression, or passive-aggression, is let's say that you as a young Aspie male are at a social event, you say something off-colour without realizing (or intending) it, then a moment later someone's face has a negative expression... so you don't put "two and two together", and you happen to notice their negative expression and ask "you seem upset, why?" then the person looks like they wanna hit you (which you might not notice!) because it was obvious why they were upset!! ! You just compartmentalized the parts without seeing the "whole" connection between them. So, you get taken for a malignant narcissist who is gaslighting his victim

I would anticipate the primary difference between ASD and the others you mention would be the context the behaviours are expressed in.

I would anticipate aggressive outbursts in people with ASD are correlated avoiding sources of extreme anxiety, like say being forced into situations where a meltdown or shutdown is likely, or having what are believed to be fair boundaries violated, or being placed in a situation where they feel violence is actually condoned without fully understanding the nuance that makes that so in some similar situations.

I'd anticipate the others you mention would be more likely to use it to further their own interests, abuse others, etc. People with ASD are probably less likely to be manipulative, even if we have other comorbids that would otherwise increase that likelihood. Why? Most of us are bright enough to realize we're not good at it and ASD often seems to also impact the ability to even realize that manipulation is viable to advance ones interests in the moment where the opportunity exists.

What they say isn't flattering but it also sounds like a pretty fair assessment of how ASD impacts many people, including even undiagnosed people with ASD. It isn't just ASD, it's also coping mechanisms that are common like social withdrawal, the need for order that's typical of many with ASD and how when that's disrupted it can provoke a meltdown in some, etc.

There's a lot of traits associated with autism that could quite reasonably make some individuals more prone to aggression, including even people who's personalities aren't especially aggressive depending on how their physical outbursts have been handled in the past.

It might not even be anything to do with autism and aggression so much as being more prone to ending up in extreme emotional states that are often expressed through physical aggression and not noticing until inhibitions have started to collapse.

The only times I've been aggressive was in defense of myself or others. Regardless of how overwhelmed, stressed and/or anxious I've been. This will continue to be the case. Stereotypically autistic enough that it took almost nothing to be diagnosed.

I'm a timid mouse otherwise.

No. I don’t believe autistic folks are more aggressive by nature than NTs.

On the whole, probably not.
Certainly not as bellicose and political as their allistic counterparts; not much desire to subjugate "inferior" cultures

I have problems with frustration. I am bad at communicating with my wife. I always put off asking her for things or to do things because for me they seem obvious so she should just know. Of course that’s not the case but my brain seems stuck in that mode where I just assume she should notice what I need. So is it my wife or myself causing me the frustration? Well it seems like it’s me. It just seems like a lot of extra work to have to tell her things. But I guess that’s what I need to do

My wife is the same way.

She takes it for granted that I should "know" certain things that I don't "know."

Merely by virtue of being an adult.

I don't misread non-verbal cues, but I can choose to ignore them if my impulses are too much to control (I know I find ignoring things hard but not when impulses are involved). For example if I'm talking to someone who seems distracted and is probably wanting me to shut up or talk about something else, I instinctively pick up on that but I choose to ignore because I really want to finish getting out what I'm saying.

With me anxiety or depression can cause anger for me, but not really physical anger, just angry feelings or words. Like if I'm feeling overwhelmed in a crowded supermarket with screaming babies, I start to feel angry inside and I may look irritated and it makes me become impatient and feel hatred towards anything that makes a noise or invades my personal space. I have to stop myself from yelling "oh piss off!" or "just shut up!", which I understand that will be inappropriate to yell like that and that actions do have consequences, but what you're feeling and what you understand can be two different things. Like I understand that babies do cry but that doesn't stop me from feeling anxious or annoyed when they do, because I just can't stand the sound (misophonia I believe).

I'm an expressive person and being out in public can be draining for me because the rules are to not show too much emotion, so I've got to behave calm and cool when inside I'm feeling exasperated with people in general. It's nothing personal, but people do take it personally when I have a frustrated facial expression, which then makes me feel worse. If someone in a supermarket sighs or glares at me because I happen to be too near or whatever, I don't take it personally, I just know how they're feeling and that I'm one of many people so they're not really frustrated at me personally, they're just frustrated with the supermarket being so crowded. It's surprising most people don't understand this.

We are not more aggressive than anybody else. I did not read the article itself but from the paragraph that the OP posted, my first thought is, "here we go again, another nt who has no idea how we work trying to describe us." They could just ask us but why bother when they can write articles like that as if they are experts.

Any people (NT or ND) would likely be biased in how they answer if just asked, egos tend to do that. Beyond that, at least some of us are more impaired than others when it comes to self-awareness and social awareness, which will further contribute to unreliable responses. Finally, some portion of autistics who might be most prone to aggression also aren't likely to be surveyed unless someone goes and visits them, which might be disruptive and upsetting to those on the more severe side of the spectrum.

Thinking of someone like my cousin who had to be placed in care because he kept beating the s**t out of my aunt, from my understanding of his degree of severity it's unlikely he would be able to give a comprehensible answer, at least not verbally and possibly not via any method.

The only way to account for people with that degree of severity is asking caregivers, which likely leads to only including what's documented, so all those cases where my aunt got beat-up wouldn't count because she didn't report them to police and she doesn't have a log for incident reports because she isn't a care facility.

That's why they don't just ask us.

^^ THIS. This is something that's happened to me all too often!! And while not interpreted as aggression per se, I'm sure it got interpreted as an annoyance or pushiness. I tended to "soften" it with a comment like "I know you're really busy, but I just need to clarify..." - I did this in a couple of past jobs with a more "big picture" thinker kind of boss, sort of a type-a personality, where I had to clarify some details that were uncertain to me and I could tell by his body language he was like "oh come on... seriously... isn't this obvious...I've got limited time and can't explain this right now" but I felt the anxiety that what if I misinterpret some unspoken expectation if I don't ask now...basically damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

This is even worse if you have a narcissistic personality type who will shoot back with "is there a problem with my communication??" in a rather indignant way, like how dare you affront them in this manner
Now THAT'S aggression.

I've got an aggressive personality so I'm told. It's learnt behaviour in my case.

I understand what you mean. But the reason I say what I say is that as a verbal Autistic who gets pushed to that point pretty regularly I and people like me are probably more equipped to help them understand why we, and other Autistic people who do not have the same styles and freedoms of communication, feel that way and what pushes us to that point. But they don't ask us. They assume they know. Maybe if they asked us, they might have a better idea of how to help people who do not have the same means of communicating as we do.

Yes. it is so difficult when we are genuinely trying to communicate a need or ask for help and we get these passive aggressive responses. People assume that we have a motive or an agenda that we do not and they respond aggressively and that kind of pain, at least the pain that I feel when people do that to me, is sometimes unbearable. It makes me feel very angry because I find it very dehumanizing.

The damned if you do, damned if you don't reality is so bad that I have had suicidal ideation because of it. But because I am a coward and not able to take my own life, I literally asked someone if they knew how I could schedule an execution because the place I live has the death penalty and I knew that it's a humane to go. But yes, the way people treat me all the time and the way that many of us are constantly treated, even when people do not understand that they are being extremely abusive, is so destructive that it causes aggression and suicidal ideation.

Joe, I am not saying that your aunt is a bad person or that she is intentionally hurting her son. But there is something going on in the dynamic or the relationship which is very painful to him. People are not aggressive for no reason unless they are sociopaths or psychopaths. The problem that I find in my own life, which makes me aggressive, is that every time I have a need, I am told that it is not reasonable for me to have that need and no one is willing to help me and then when I experience the consequences of not having the need met, the same people who could have and should have helped me then blame me for the consequence and then expect me to somehow magically make the consequence go away because they don't like it. For me, the consequences usually mean that I become weaker and my body breaks down. I have massive and extensive burnouts which leave me unable to function. But the same people who refuse to acknowledge my needs and help me then blame me for not being able to function and treat me abusively calling me lazy and unwilling to do the things I need to do and the also reprimand me for not being able to function. They also blame me for meltdowns and punish me for them. And if I respond in anger and frustration, they reprimand me and punish me for being angry and frustrated because in their eyes they have done nothing to hurt me. But if I get aggressive, I get arrested or put in a psyche ward for being aggressive.

The why probably isn't relevant when tracking how common violence is.

If I ask how many socks are on your floor why they're there and how they got there aren't details I care about or need to know about.

Why is much more relevant when considering approaches to reduce violence.

I decided to read the article. I just called the author and asked him to call me back so that we can discuss it. I am actually pretty angry at what he wrote. I don't think he is being accurate or fair in what he wrote. I will discuss this with him if he decides to call me back.