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rat_
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27 Oct 2024, 8:48 am

i just turned 69 years old and was reflecting on my bio. i've come to see my whole life as one big improvisation. i have severe adhd and an extra helping of autistic traits that have made it almost impossible to see a future state, much less plan for a future state. so my life has consisted of "whatever comes out".

when i cook, i fly by the seat of my pants. i paint or sculpt and the result is as much a surprise to me as it is to any observer. i love playing my piano and keyboard but every note is improvised even after months of lessons.

it's like i have a 3cm view and a 30,000 km view and everything in between is just chaos. it's been that way my whole life. all the steps in between are like magic to me. they happen in spite of my best efforts and not because of them.

i am fortunate to have a capable nt spouse and a high enough IQ to compensate for some serious handicapped executive function. my wife has been patient but there's always been an awareness that i disappoint her often and have for the last fifty years. that's the hardest part. she's much better at hiding her disappointment after five decades. overall, we've had a pleasant life

i'm curious if any of this is common in the community.



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27 Oct 2024, 7:24 pm

I'm certainly able to improvise when I play music, but I can also get locked into overplanning it and working to a formula in the hope of optimising the result, which tends to take all the fun out of the thing, though the results are usually quite good. I suppose overall I'm a mixture of intuitive improvisation and anal-retentive planning. Most of my cooking is formulaic these days, with almost no room for variety or the unknown. It's as if I dislike cooking and have reduced it to very rigid, precisely-defined steps that are designed to get it done in the minimum possible time. Yet I've been known to start cooking with no idea what I'm going to do, just for the hell of it. I can never decide whether to be an artist or a scientist. If the result is important I'll probably do it like a scientist just to be on the safe side. I'm somewhat proud of both of those abilities.

As for partners, my last NT wife and I disappointed each other quite a lot. Certainly I don't see it as one-sided when it comes to disappointing behaviour.



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27 Oct 2024, 7:35 pm

rat_ wrote:
i just turned 69 years old and was reflecting on my bio. i've come to see my whole life as one big improvisation. i have severe adhd and an extra helping of autistic traits that have made it almost impossible to see a future state, much less plan for a future state. so my life has consisted of "whatever comes out".

when i cook, i fly by the seat of my pants. i paint or sculpt and the result is as much a surprise to me as it is to any observer. i love playing my piano and keyboard but every note is improvised even after months of lessons.

it's like i have a 3cm view and a 30,000 km view and everything in between is just chaos. it's been that way my whole life. all the steps in between are like magic to me. they happen in spite of my best efforts and not because of them.

i am fortunate to have a capable nt spouse and a high enough IQ to compensate for some serious handicapped executive function. my wife has been patient but there's always been an awareness that i disappoint her often and have for the last fifty years. that's the hardest part. she's much better at hiding her disappointment after five decades. overall, we've had a pleasant life

i'm curious if any of this is common in the community.


That's an excellent description that also describes my life.


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28 Oct 2024, 4:30 am

Some find a sense of comfort and control from routines and rigid order in life. I have found that Aspergers is a life less able to live by reflex. As a result, one can find that the avalanche of sensory information (both from external sources and internal such as thoughts) makes everything done seem intentional.



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28 Oct 2024, 6:56 am

Masking.....? = improvisation ....?...Congradulations on 50 yrs together . Late hubby passed on a decade and a half ago.
Took me 15 yrs to mentally accept that he was not coming back . Even after the memorial . And still would talk to him as if he was still in the house . ( in private) of course .


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rat_
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28 Oct 2024, 9:28 am

Jakki

I do mask a lot. But the improvisation i'm talking about is just the workaround for the fact that my lack of workable executive function causes me to just aim in a general direction and take a shot at whatever i want or need to accomplish. if i wait until i have a plan or know the steps, i just don't do the things that need to get done. That's a response from my adhd and not from my autistic tendencies.

i am sorry for your loss. i cannot borrow from the future to think of what life will be like when one of us loses the other. my wife is handicapped and things would be very difficult for her physically. my handicap is my neurodivergence and i'm afraid daily functioning would be very difficult for me. but, we'd both be lost without the other.



rat_
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28 Oct 2024, 12:25 pm

timf wrote:
Some find a sense of comfort and control from routines and rigid order in life. I have found that Aspergers is a life less able to live by reflex. As a result, one can find that the avalanche of sensory information (both from external sources and internal such as thoughts) makes everything done seem intentional.


somehow i relate to aspergers but i don't share most traits. i've had to come to the point of embracing the chaos and just enjoying the small victories. i love the idea of intentionality, but i don't seem to be able to accomplish it. i've had some success in spite of my lack of being intentional about the pursuit. all the podcasts on planning and organization seem so promising but i've yet to find a way to move past improvisation.

in all my research about neurodivergence, i've come to truly appreciate the differences as well as the commonalities between neurodivergent types. i am very high on the adhd spectrum and apparently low on the autism spectrum, if i'd even be truly classified as being on that spectrum. I believe many of the challenges are similar.



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28 Oct 2024, 9:59 pm

""Thank You Rat ..."" hope you guys have a very long Life together . Yes losing hubby , broke my head completely for a very long time ....It was very good he had me pay the bills on my own sometimes.. And gave me much information on doing all kinds of stuff . We had many educational. experiences together . Usually was me doing the learning .


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28 Oct 2024, 10:53 pm

I get not being able to see the future bit and improvising.


Some theory suggests it's from trauma or inconsistent parenting.
That it can be remedied by therapy.

Then some are cut off by sheer executive dysfunction or not having enough IQ over cause and effect.
That there are some work arounds.


I decided to go with both.
Because mine fits both.

I decided that I'll figure the former, because the latter hadn't worked out for me yet.
That maybe the latter will work when I solve the former.


I'm dealing with a contradictory inclination between leaning towards routines and strategies, and towards whim and chances.

That it can look like improvising or drifting off, reacting without a direction or goal in mind except to just get by and be more comfortable.

Some can afford to look at templates from other people, fill the blanks themselves; I couldn't.


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rat_
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29 Oct 2024, 12:04 am

Edna3362 wrote:
Some theory suggests it's from trauma or inconsistent parenting.
That it can be remedied by therapy.


i've been in therapy for three years now and childhood stuff has come up more than once. i'm guessing things from my childhood factor into some of the trauma i've dealt with. other later trauma has factored in much more.

I can attest to the fact that trauma has not been easily remedied in therapy. i truly believe that a life of unknowingly seeing things through neurodivergent colored glasses has made any remedy much harder to come by.



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29 Oct 2024, 12:25 am

rat_ wrote:
Edna3362 wrote:
Some theory suggests it's from trauma or inconsistent parenting.
That it can be remedied by therapy.


i've been in therapy for three years now and childhood stuff has come up more than once. i'm guessing things from my childhood factor into some of the trauma i've dealt with. other later trauma has factored in much more.

I can attest to the fact that trauma has not been easily remedied in therapy. i truly believe that a life of unknowingly seeing things through neurodivergent colored glasses has made any remedy much harder to come by.

Mine is mostly inconsistency in parenting.
It's mostly related to poverty and my parents' immaturity.

The fact that I came from a culture that's stereotypically known for unpunctuality doesn't help.


So...
My path would consist of unlearning certain 'norms' and the crap that's been modelled to me than emotional processing and the stuff that happened or did not happened to me.

I already did a lot of my part on emotional processing; emotional regulation certainly makes existing way easier.
Yes, it helps but do not flat out solve the root cause of this specific problem.

There's still something subconscious holding me back and I'm hunting it down.
I'm not in therapy (can't afford that, hate words and talking, etc...) mine consists of inner work.


And I didn't always have executive dysfunction.
Maybe it's my sleep quality or my hormones...
I hadn't managed to get diagnosed or rule it out.

I experienced certain days, certain states of the contrast of being able to look at the future and prospect.
Having plans and actually working towards it, having intent and it actually happens.

However, it's too short, too fleeing.
Surely there's a way for me to sustain that, or make it more permanent?
Since external aides and changes hadn't solved that, then it's internal.


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29 Oct 2024, 6:04 am

Like the acheived idea of things leaning towards internal , but the past input of others especially in very very young childhood , playing the Strongest role . The add a healthy dose of neurodiversity .. And all the variable inputs of that ,including cross
diagnoses of more than Asperger's/ ADHD . And literally opportunities not afforded myself vs other gender siblings .
And can almost see my own story of incidents in life . Got quite tired of.many misdiagnoses. And drugs to try to over ride my own nature..And over ten years of talk therapy .No real idea that in the end , if you do not figure it out and rely
on the people put in front of me as authority figures . It just gave me a place to vent .And , but it gave me hope to get through a time , I might of rather not ...at that time in my Life .But this is enevitably just my own experience.
And learned to pretty much rely on my own little brain, with a little extra research. And still here,after all this time .
And I am keenly aware that many did "not" make it , as far along (as many of my contemporarys did.)


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rat_
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29 Oct 2024, 8:48 am

Edna3362 wrote:
There's still something subconscious holding me back and I'm hunting it down.
I'm not in therapy (can't afford that, hate words and talking, etc...) mine consists of inner work.


i relate to much of what you said but your words in parentheses caught my attention. specifically the "hate words and talking" part. i've had an inner monologue for years that is "words are not my friends". my mind evaluates and analyzes everything but, when it comes time to say or write them down, they vanish.

i have been fortunate to have the luxury to trade off other needs in order to pay for counseling.

I was diagnosed with severe adhd inattentive 25 years ago. through therapy, my first therapist and i both agreed that some of my issues and ways of thinking pointed towards possibly being on the autism spectrum. i'm still exploring that possibility but cannot afford the official evaluation.



rat_
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29 Oct 2024, 9:03 am

Jakki wrote:
Like the acheived idea of things leaning towards internal , but the past input of others especially in very very young childhood , playing the Strongest role . The add a healthy dose of neurodiversity .. And all the variable inputs of that ,including cross
diagnoses of more than Asperger's/ ADHD . And literally opportunities not afforded myself vs other gender siblings .
And can almost see my own story of incidents in life . Got quite tired of.many misdiagnoses. And drugs to try to over ride my own nature..And over ten years of talk therapy .No real idea that in the end , if you do not figure it out and rely
on the people put in front of me as authority figures . It just gave me a place to vent .And , but it gave me hope to get through a time , I might of rather not ...at that time in my Life .But this is enevitably just my own experience.
And learned to pretty much rely on my own little brain, with a little extra research. And still here,after all this time .
And I am keenly aware that many did "not" make it , as far along (as many of my contemporarys did.)


i went into therapy working on other issues but came to the realization of just how much my adhd has affected my life as things were discussed. but as things progressed, i mentioned to my therapist that i "almost felt like i was autistic". she didn't disagree. that, at age 66 or so, was the first time i ever considered the possibility and my research has supported the idea. I can't afford an official evaluation and not sure what the benefit would be other than self validation.

as i'm entertaining the idea that it's the structural differences in my brain that have made it difficult to relate to nt's, i'm able to put a lot of pieces of my life into a more manageable story. my therapists have been more of a sounding board than a source of knowledge. being able to talk out my experiences and thoughts has made it easier to get out of the loops i found myself going through.

i actually like the way my brain functions. but i dislike that it seems to make me feel isolated.



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29 Oct 2024, 9:19 am

Had read on a Quora website : that many higher IQ people often do not socialize much and much less in the way of friends . just a fyi ..And if your content with your head.. Your probably doing seriously better than a large portion of the population 8O .....?


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rat_
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29 Oct 2024, 11:30 am

Jakki wrote:
Had read on a Quora website : that many higher IQ people often do not socialize much and much less in the way of friends . just a fyi ..And if your content with your head.. Your probably doing seriously better than a large portion of the population 8O .....?


I believe the Quora quote, but feel like I've been caught in a perfect storm of high iq, severe adhd, certain traumas and now apparently exacerbated by likely ASD. I think figuring out that last part is helping me to make more sense of my biography.