What is wrong with the way autistic people communicate?

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KitLily
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13 Jun 2023, 1:59 pm

Autistic people are told that we take things too literally.

What is actually wrong with that? Communication should be clear and direct, otherwise what is the point of it? We might as well not speak or write, but just dance around or wave flags or something.

I note that most 'communication experts' advise people to be clear and direct when communicating, but no one is, so are they advising the wrong thing? Why do they tell people to be clear and direct if no one does it? What is the benefit of advocating clear communication if no one likes clear communication?

Or maybe they should just change the word 'communication' to 'vague hinting'?

Something is topsy turvy here.


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13 Jun 2023, 2:04 pm

just thinking out loud
NTs especially don't like to be made to feel stupid, or weird, or lonely and if they ever are then it's not their fault


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KitLily
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13 Jun 2023, 2:09 pm

mrpieceofwork wrote:
just thinking out loud
NTs especially don't like to be made to feel stupid, or weird, or lonely and if they ever are then it's not their fault


Are you saying that means they don't dare say anything clear in case of backlash? So they hint and go round the houses and refer indirectly to things instead?


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skibum
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13 Jun 2023, 7:16 pm

KitLily wrote:
Autistic people are told that we take things too literally.

What is actually wrong with that? Communication should be clear and direct, otherwise what is the point of it? We might as well not speak or write, but just dance around or wave flags or something.

I note that most 'communication experts' advise people to be clear and direct when communicating, but no one is, so are they advising the wrong thing? Why do they tell people to be clear and direct if no one does it? What is the benefit of advocating clear communication if no one likes clear communication?

Or maybe they should just change the word 'communication' to 'vague hinting'?

Something is topsy turvy here.
there is nothing wrong with how we communicate. It's just that nts can't tolerate how we communicate so they pathologize that and everything else we do.


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KitLily
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14 Jun 2023, 2:30 am

skibum wrote:
there is nothing wrong with how we communicate. It's just that nts can't tolerate how we communicate so they pathologize that and everything else we do.


That is a great answer and EXACTLY! I don't think it's possible to 'take things too literally' because words have meanings and should be used correctly. Otherwise there is no point communicating in words.


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14 Jun 2023, 3:07 am

I think some people have a different definition of what it means to communicate "clearly", so what's clear to one person is unclear to another person. It's too vague of a word, I think

Also I think a lot of nt people assume that there are unspoken motivations at play when someone doesn't communicate the way they expect them to. This can happen to nd people too (I've also misunderstood people's tone or meaning on occasion, even when they weren't trying to be deceitful or even figurative)



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14 Jun 2023, 3:46 am

Am I the only one here who understands how NTs in general think and communicate?


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14 Jun 2023, 3:58 am

Joe90 wrote:
Am I the only one here who understands how NTs in general think and communicate?


No, I've never had a problem understanding it. Communications was a strong subject for me at school. I'm just not very good at doing it, particularly doing it in real time!

One of the really fascinating things about communicating, for me, is the depth of it. It's three dimensional and I think that's what people with ASD struggle with. The exact same sentence can have completely different meanings in different contexts.

Given time to process it, I can work this stuff out but it's a manual process. I think NTs just know it, immediately and instinctively.


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14 Jun 2023, 4:40 am

Ambiguity absolves responsibility.  By being vague, a person can claim that they did not mean what you think they did.  Thus, if a supervisor says, "Maybe someone could pick up the trash in the parking-lot", and you are the only other person in the room, then:

• If you stay where you are, and do your assigned job, then you can be dismissed for not following an order to clean the parking lot.

• If you clean the parking lot, then you can be dismissed for not doing your assigned job.

• If you do both, then the supervisor takes the credit, and dumps more such vague assignments on you until you screw something up.

Eventually, you -- the poor, hard-working aspie -- gets dismissed.

Win-win, for the employer; and lose-lose for you.



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14 Jun 2023, 4:53 am

Fnord wrote:
Ambiguity absolves responsibility.  By being vague, a person can claim that they did not mean what you think they did.  Thus, if a supervisor says, "Maybe someone could pick up the trash in the parking-lot", and you are the only other person in the room, then:

• If you stay where you are, and do your assigned job, then you can be dismissed for not following an order to clean the parking lot.

• If you clean the parking lot, then you can be dismissed for not doing your assigned job.

• If you do both, then the supervisor takes the credit, and dumps more such vague assignments on you until you screw something up.

Eventually, you -- the poor, hard-working aspie -- gets dismissed.

Win-win, for the employer; and lose-lose for you.


This is an example of ambiguity absolving responsibility, for sure. It can do that. But it doesn't always do that. And that's the problem, and the beauty, of communication.

Ambiguity can also be intriguing, mysterious, compelling and exciting and many other things. Ambiguity allows us to consider that one thing may be two things until we have further information - quantum thinking! That's what I mean about the three-dimensionality of it, the meaning isn't just in the words.


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14 Jun 2023, 5:12 am

Various issues.

Shared context: Dave was in the break room when I came in this morning. Everyone knows what THAT means.

Emotion: I was SO angry when I caught Kevin talking with Laura.

How does it affect me: I don't care WHY you didn't finish by Friday, just tell me when you will.


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14 Jun 2023, 5:14 am

MaxE wrote:
Various issues.

Shared context: Dave was in the break room when I came in this morning. Everyone knows what THAT means.

Emotion: I was SO angry when I caught Kevin talking with Laura.

How does it affect me: I don't care WHY you didn't finish by Friday, just tell me when you will.
When I ask how many are expected to the meeting, I am not asking for a roll-call.  I just need to know how many donuts to order.



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14 Jun 2023, 5:17 am

Not lesser, just different.


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14 Jun 2023, 5:21 am

MaxE wrote:
Dave was in the break room when I came in this morning.


Was he? Well that's strange. Because I did the rota this week and Dave wasn't down for a shift this morning. He's been coming in a lot lately when he's not supposed to be working. Do you think he's having trouble at home? He never talks about his home life, and if you ask him, he always makes a joke about it then moves the conversation on. I think he's probably alone a lot. Maybe that's why he comes and sits in the break room?

Was THAT what this sentence meant?


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MaxE
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14 Jun 2023, 5:59 am

DuckHairback wrote:
MaxE wrote:
Dave was in the break room when I came in this morning.


Was he? Well that's strange. Because I did the rota this week and Dave wasn't down for a shift this morning. He's been coming in a lot lately when he's not supposed to be working. Do you think he's having trouble at home? He never talks about his home life, and if you ask him, he always makes a joke about it then moves the conversation on. I think he's probably alone a lot. Maybe that's why he comes and sits in the break room?

Was THAT what this sentence meant?

Duh. Where have you been?

EDIT: In your own little world most likely. As usual.


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14 Jun 2023, 6:43 am

I thought it was more of an autistic thing to not give a yes or no answer and instead go all round the houses.

For example yesterday my boss asked one of my colleagues if he can work on Saturday. This colleague is a little different from the others but I can't say for sure if he's ND or not, but anyway when the boss asked him he started going on about how he doesn't get appreciated. The boss sighed and said "can you do Saturday, yes or no?" So the colleague said no, which was what he was implying anyway, but the others at work were mocking him behind his back because he is always "different" and "doesn't get to the point".


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