Prosopragnosia. (Face Blindness).

Post Reply New Topic

I knew my Mother had it. Lots of amusing stories involving her past inability to recognise people so I knew all about them. We never knew back then that it had an official name, and when mentioning it to a doctor they didn't seem interested. But I didn't know I had it until I was in collage at the age of 16-18.

The first event, I didn't know what or how it had happened. All I knew was that my first "Date" (I was 16. She was 17) I stood in the rain next to this lady outside the collage gates, and there was a primary school next door so many ladies stood there waiting for their children, so nothing seemed unusual. All the mum's and children gradually went, but this one ladies child didn't arrive, so I felt a bit sorry for her, but there was nothing I could do except wait for my date to turn up. (I was very shy and nervous so I would not have spoken to the lady. Besides. I was waiting for MY date).
My date was a year older than I am but she looked younger. I had noticed them (She had a friend) many times and they had noticed me, but due to shyness, I had never talked to them. (Still haven't to this day!) I passed a note via other students and received a note back telling me to wait for her after collage outside the gates. One of the other more forward guys who already had a girlfriend showed that he also fancied her and told me she wasn't going to turn up. I ignored that because it could just be his jelousy. Besides. He had a girlfriend!

So after standing a few feet away from this lady in the rain for at least half an hour (She had her umbrella and her coat on. I had my bicycle with me as it was my transport to get home), I suddenly realised that the collage had more gates... So I darted off quickly on my bike to check the other gates. There were five sets of gates I found, but she wasn't waiting at any of them, so I came back to the original gates and waited.
I noticed how this lady had abandoned waiting for her child and started walking down the hill towards the town. Thought for a moment that I would have tried going into the school of I had a child like that but thought nothing of it. After waiting 45 minutes, I gave up. It was winter, it was getting dark as the clocks had gone back, and I had to cycle home. (An hours journey back. Half an hours journey there in the morning. (I lived on a mountain near the sea).

The next morning in collage, I wanted to know why she didn't turn up. I didn't have to wait long as her friend came and she was really angry at me as she said I had "Stood her up!" They then avoided me for the rest of the two years I was there, and I avoided them!

I refused to date anyone else even though I had been asked out several times! Not until I was in my mid 30's when a work collegue wanted to date me and had to really convince me that it was ok to go out with her. She reassured me that I would not mess it up. She even promised me she would recognise me! (Dated her for around 6 to 8 months but it was not to be. (Long story! She was dating others and I didn't find out until half a year after she suddenly broke all contact that she was with another guy, and we were going to get married. Had a lucky escape with her!))

But back to collage. I wasn't going to pass. I had thoughts that some of the teachers were against me, as I would hand in my work, and while I knew I was struggling with my maths, I didn't expect 0 marks. I would have at least had something? But 0 marks...?
Nothing was asked of me as to why my work had 0 marks, and I didn't want to find out! Was just told I must try harder! Tried I did, but after about a year of the two years course (Which was once five years, but they shortened it to three, and then just two years (Far too short as only one person passed who didn't cheat to pazs (Who was exceptionally intelligent), and I was the only one who refused to cheat at the final exams so I failed.

But a year and a half into the course something took place that I didn't expect. A lecturer came to chat with another lecturer and at that very moment I discovered there were two of them that to me looked the same! Collage was a crazy place to us students as the lecturers were very eccentric. (Very brainy as well as one of the published books we studied was written by one of these two lecturers I thought was just the one guy!) But it came as a shock, as I realised I kept handing my work to the wrong one! Also came as a complete shock that also I had misdiagnosis like my Mum! I didn't know! And the lecturers different surnames I put down to there being different mathematical mechanical based subjects. After all, one of the electrical lecturers would suddenly start clucking like a chicken in the middle of the lesson and walk round the class with his arms folded like wings.... Then as if nothing had happened he went back to his usual serious self!
And another lecturer used to instinctively know one of us would fart even before it happened, and used to walk round the class with such sensitive nose to hound out the culprit and throw them out the class! (I was the victim on more than one occasion but several other students had the same... I could not contain my laughter this one time when after being thrown out the class, I let one go and heard it echo right down the long old corridor of the old brick built Victorian building... And the other lecturers in the staff room half way down the corridor I heard making a comment "There goes another one", (Knowing the teacher who had thrown another student out his class...).
NONE of us needed to fart in any of the other lecturers lessons! How come it was just his!?

Another lecturer we had was a brilliantly kind guy from Saudi Arabia, but as when he first arrived could hardly speak a word of English, would pick up some of the swear words the students would say and think they were ok to use! Despite him being such a good guy, the difficulties of our understanding him effected our exam results. But I am all glad to have met him for that time and I remember fondly when some students flanked him after him saying he wanted to learn Welsh. I was students huddled outside the staff room peering in through the windows... I asked "What's happening" and was quickly motioned to keep quiet. I was told "Watch". And as I watched, he said something to the other lecturers, one of whom dropped his cup of tea onto his lap!
And then one of the students said "Now run!"... as they all legged it down the long corridor leaving me for a brief moment standing there wondering what to do! (When I got my brain in gear, I legged it as well!). Memories!

But here is a description a LOT like mine of prosopragnosia, and nearly all of what he says I also get, and what he says at the end I also get because I compensate for prosopragnosia and pick up on patterns... Well. Best I let you see the short clip!



https://youtu.be/27GDprxr4d4?feature=shared

I was shocked and relieved when I learned I have and has always had prosopagnosia. It explained so much! I did not learn about it until after I was diagnosed with autism at age 68, I also learned I have aphantasia... I had no idea when people said "picture this" they were actually seeing images in their minds! I just thought it meant "imagine this" ... Its taken a long time to sort out, I have not only prosopagnosia and aphantasia, but have only 25th percentile function of visual processing and 35th percentile function of audio processing. No wonder I have been confused all my life!

If I didn''t know that my Mum had it, I would not have known what was going on. It can get crazy because at times I can get told off by people who don't believe it is a thing, and so I can over-react by smiling at everyone I see and pass to make sure I don't upset anyone. Is MUCH easier where I live now because I hardly know anyone who lives here, so I don't upset anyone! But it feels awful in other ways as it feels alone and isolating, so I don't know...

People whose faces look anything like similar tend to look identical to me unless I see them standing next to each other and have enough time to take in their fine differences.

Yes, but the only way I can do that is to stare at people without talking, and people don't like that and complain, which makes me really embarissed.

That sounds very frustrating and I’m glad I don’t have that problem. I just have the standard problem of remembering faces but not names, but that’s not uncommon.

Years ago we had a thread about this. Someone said that when watching Star Trek they couldnt tell Sulu from Checkov.

To those of us with out face blindness that seems insane because they were ...of different races for gawd sakes! Checkov was White and Sulu East Asian.

But the person said they were both young guys with similar hair color and similar hair cuts. Which is actually true.

And when you think about it...the fact the rest of us think they look different is more curious then that a few cant tell them apart.

My theory. Most primates (including humans) have special brain circuitry that locks on to a human face and kind of magnifies it ...and magnifies the subtle individual features.

But some dont have that circuitry so...the face of another person is just another part of the landscape.

To those of us w/o FB...imagine if your brain gave no more attention to a human face than it gave to any other piece of scenery the tiny size of a human face.

^ From what I can remember, it's to do with a part of the brain on the right ? side. The left? part recognizes things that looks like faces and the right? part works out if it's an actual face. I can't remember the name of the part but some suggest that the condition is caused by the right? part getting damaged or impaired at some point (sometimes in the womb).

I actually get both. I can lose people I once knew! People I assume who knew ms stay away from me because I have unknowingly ignored them?

Also get the inbetween stages where I may know a face, but not have a clue from where. So I approach hoping that the persons voice will give a clue. I have actually approached a rather well known local dignitory with the thought "I know him from somewhere, so I better say "Hello" (I can get into trouble if I don't), and thought for a moment he may be an elderly maths teacher, but realized he wasn't, and then the guy said he didn't knkw who I was. So I politely parted and went my way and so did he. Ages later I saw him in the newspaper. Realized it was the newspaper is where I had sesn him before, but my brain could not think that at the time.
Often don't remember faces or names!
Have had lengthy conversations with a person who obviously knew me where I kept the conversation going for nearly half an hour in order to desparately try to work out who he was, and he went away happy to have bumped into me, and to this very day I don't have a clue who it was!
(Happened many times, but usually they say something which jogs my memory of who they are).

Once I nipped out one lunchtime to go to the bank before I came back to have my food. I had just turned the corner and was at the end of the street to where the bank was (Bank was at the other end of the short street). Saw a lady and a little boy that I knew I knew from somewhere, but I couldn't think where. (Is how my prosopragnosia can work on partial levels. I only know when it works on a ful level when I later find myself in trouble for completely ignoring someone, or worse still asking who they are when they get really offended when I don't knkw who they are! But what I call semi prosopragnosia is where I know I know them from somewhere but I don't know who they are as my brain can't make the conection between the face I am looking at and my memory of people. (Somehow I find it hard to inwardly remember faces of what people look like. So I can see someone that part of my brain says that I know them, but the rest of my brain can't give me any other information than that!)
But back to the past event.This lady and I said "Hello" as we passed and it was as if the lady knew me but was also puzzling who I was. the child tugged at her hand trying to pull her my way as I passed. The child was around three or four years old if that. I was in my early 20's at the time. So both the lady and I carried on going our separate ways puzzling who it was that we had met. I knew that someow this person was very familiar to me. I got to the bank, and was waiting in the queue. While in the queue, I was going through my mind of family friends and workmates and people I knew from my past. Anyone and everyone I could think of who it might be. Tnen I we t through my aunts, uncles and and my cousins.. (Why I included my uncles? Haha! But I needed to count them all out in my mind. I almost gave up with the idea that I was going to knkw who this person was. And then it hit me. I ran out the bank, and managed to find them a few minutes later. It was my Mother and my little brother! My Mum has prosopragnosia too and she was thinking the exact same thing as I had been thinking towards her! I had to tell her exactly who I was so her memory of who I was would kick in! (It wasn't as if we had not seen each other for a while as I lived with her. I had lived with her and my Dad almost every single day of my life! (Along with my brothers but every day of their lives).
My Mum once stopped a lady coming up the garden path and said "Yes? What do you want?" thinking the lady was a stranger. It was her Mum! So is not just me!
I had not recognised both my aunts (The one who was the sister to.my Mum who I am convinced was on the spectrum if I am (Along with my Mum and Grandmother) understood, but my aunt who was my Dads brothers wife did not believe me and thought I had ignored her on purpose! Also ignored...
Ok. Here is another example of a prosopragnosia moment when I worked on the railways. Working a late night train. Usual thing to have most of the people drunk, with a rare few sober... One of the first people I came to was this lady who was a few years younger and said "Hello ++++" ( She said my name). I assumed she had read my namebadge and was being far too forward, so I totally ignored her and I didn't even stay to ask for her ticket, as I knew too well what some forward ladies on the train were like. (If I was a female and they were males, some events I had to endure were classed as out and out sexual assault, but because I am a male and they are females I had to ignore it and carry on. (Why when this young lady called out my name, I genuinely thought she was trouble!)).
Well I worked the rest of the train, and just got through them before the next stop where the majority were getting off. Then carried on... Thought nothing of it.
About a month later my aunt visited (Mums sister) and asked why I had ignored my cousin. I said I hadn't. She said she had been to the city as part of her modelling (She had to look like a lady called Maralyn Monroe. Heard of her?), and I had completely ignored her. I then realized and explained. My cousin understood. Actually on that side of the family we all looked young for our age, and my cousin (The others were older boys) made herself look exactly like Maralyn Monroe. She had the figure and the hair and face. Actually had to make herself look older and less atractive to look the part as my cousin was a stunner!)

But anyway. Other prosopragnosia events I can easily recall. Once while working on the railway I nipped out into town. Boughg things to eat and was on my way back. Someone said something to me which was normal as plenty of people knew I worked on the railway as I dealt in hundreds, or even thousands of people a day! I asked where I knew them from (As some passengers I would know them from the stations where they get on and off). The guy said "Its me! I'm your driver. We worked together 20 minutes ago. Remember?". : D OOPS!

Oh. My Mum! Two actors on TV my Mum can't tell apart. One is a white guy. The other is a black guy. To her she does not take into account that they are a completely different skin colour. I don't know if I do this, but I do know that like my Mum, some movies make no sense as we can have the bad guys and good guys on the same side as to us they can look like the exact same person!

I can recognize people sometimes or have the sense that they are familiar, but I've heard that face blindness is a spectrum similar to autism? I once took a test for face blindness on an official website for the condition, and it said I had some degree of it.

Find it also varies and is not a constant. And is not something that if one has full out faceblindness, that someone will knkw about other than being told off by others. Is probably one of the reasons I can lose friends? Could also be something to do with autism traits? I don't know.
What I do know is that I tend to befriend odd people, but that those odd people are the most genuine people I have ever met! I would not want to become "Normal" and "Fit in" like I used to try to do. It is like trying to run towards ever moving goalposts... Goalposts that unfairly move away from me if I aim towards them, but if other more "Popular" people try the goalposts are moved towards them! When in collage I once challenged the ones in the class as apparently my dress sense wasn't good and they said "Why can't you be like one of us and act 'Normal'?" They said I should change my chords for jeans like theirs (Cant wear jeans on a bicycle! They had cars so they didn't need to cycle back home like I did). Then in walked a more popular student wearing chords like mine, so I pointed him out and said "What about him?" and they said " He's 'One of us'. He's allowed to wear chords". I couldn't win!

But the few friends I have found over the years are real gems! Of these friends I would say I that it can take a whole decade of searching to find a single friend like them!

I know what it is like to have no friends and have a whole class of students turn against me. Once was going to jump straight through a large third storey window to escape bullying when my masking started breaking down, and it was only that a lecturer came in at the exact right moment and told me off for standing on a desk, that I didn't run from desk to desk and dive through the window as my only escape. (Was a large single pane window so it would have broken easily. I was going to land in the top of a large tree below ad climb down, jump on my bicycle and make my escape and go! It took me many years before I could go in a building with many people or through a crowd as I was fearful that large groups of people could suddenly "Group think" together like they did in the class, and turn against me without warning. Always sat right by the door in church meetings or other meetings after that and did not like going deeper into buildings if I had to pass people who could block my escape. The exams I sat immediately after that I did not finish the questions so I could leave early before the rest of the class could have the ability to bully me. I didn't pass but I didn't care, as this was survival. What good was passing exams if I didn't survive?

Last edited by Mountain Goat on 23 Oct 2023, 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hmm.....dark sunglasses? Concealed bodycam, study footage later in private? My way is to talk with them, so that it looks like I'm giving some kind of eye contact.

I rarely make direct eye contact while talking. I can't as it is like trying to do two things at once. Have learned the art of making it look like I am looking at them, by either turning my head their way and looking slightly left or right, or shifting my eyes out of focus instead (Which hurts to do so I can't do it for long). I have been caught out and told off in the past when someone moves and I am still talkingto them where I was. People get offended when that happens as they realize I wasn't looking at them!

I’m very faceblind.

It explains some of my dating choices lol

Mine was identified during my ASD assessment as an official condition.

I looked it up , it's thought that when the fusiform gyrus gets impaired and damaged causes prosopagnosia. Apparently fusiform gyrus damage can also cause the opposite effect and can cause people to be super recognizers.

Which is bloody weird as my partner has faceblindess, and I scored well above average in a super recognizer study.

Last edited by Recidivist on 24 Oct 2023, 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.