Is there just something in the NT genome making them CHEAT?

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I don't mean "cheat" so much as in relationships, but cheat to win, like to fraudulent sh*t or covertly sandbag your opponent, insidious stuff like that. I've occasionally heard fellow Aspies lament the NT tendency to cheat, and how in some settings it's an unspoken, hive-mind-like expectation; e.g. a manager uses some euphemistic facade like "find creative ways to raise the numbers".

I always found this a bit of a paradox, that NTs are always all about the rules of decorum, don't shame yourself, but... what could be more shameful than being caught cheating? And doesn't it break a whole bunch of social rules???

However, that all being said, I find it's mostly the "upper class" of NTs who won't hesitate to cheat, those who are more like a Myers-Briggs ESTP personality or on the "narcissist spectrum" (or psychopathy or Machiavellian spectrum, a.k.a. "the dark triad"). I refer to these people as "uber-NTs" - think Miranda Priestley or Don Draper.

Of course, we find such types in politics - I mean heck, even back in college/uni I remember cheating going on among student union leaders. And we all know that many of them try to circumvent conflict-of-interest rules while imposing those rules on others.

I think cheating can be a tribal construct in the "NT world", too - just look at some of the episodes of Cobra Kai where cheating was rampant.

It's unfortunate, and I know that many of us (myself included) have tried harder to assure others that we have no intention of cheating as a "masking" strategy to make us appear like decent folk who are mentally upright, but I've come to realize that in a lot of instances that tactic can backfire. They still gradually come to see us as "unnatural" beings.

Most mammals aren't wired to be monogamous...that's a social construct, not a genetic one.

I think it's more that NTs are OBSESSED with the hierarchy and their place in it. And jostling for position on it or getting higher on it.

This means they will do anything to make sure they aren't pushed down the ladder or made to look silly. And if that involves cheating, so be it.

The same applies to their obsession with covering up their mistakes- they don't like to be caught out making a mistake so they will do anything to cover up mistakes.

Appearance is EVERYTHING to NTs.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that one KitLily...basically, those people are making a quick heuristic evaluation of "am I likely to get caught?? will anyone suspect that I did such-and-such to gain the upper hand?" and if the answer's no, then they go for it...I think that the increased presence of video footage since this century began helps in deterring some of that and keeping people honest, so at least us more enlightened Aspie folk have THAT in our favour.

I will say that appearance can mean a lot to some Aspies too - I was very appearance-conscious, and made an attempt to dress well back in my 20s... but I still had some blind spots, e.g. I forgot to shower on occasion or apply deodorant. I believe that at our core, we have SOME inclination to maintain appearances, but we're so damn demoralized and jaded from past disappointments, that we let some of that slip. It's what psychologists call "learned helplessness". Something that those with NT privilege don't suffer from.

I don't think that's limited to NTs.

In some fields a degree of cheating is expected, hence the phrase if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'.

In other fields being seen to have engaged in any degree of cheating would be deeply humiliating.

Autistic folk are known to be more likely to stick tot he rules/the structured 'correct' way of doing things. Cheating requires a level of mental flexibility that some autistic folk struggle with, or simply don't have.

Autistic folk can be very moral people, in our own ways.

I am very keen on justice and fairness. I generally don't like cheating and I don't cheat. Unless it would help my family, then I'll cheat but it's only things like making up excuses as to why my daughter can't go to school that day. And even then it's because she needs a mental health day off, which is frowned on by schools. But as her mother, I know when.

I never had any idea how to dress well so I looked for those 'dressing systems' which put you into different categories- seasons, types, palettes etc- and you dress according to that. So I found the best system and I stick rigidly to their clear suggestions. That's the only reason I look well dressed most of the time.

Exactly. Truth=reality. The real nature of things is way more important to us than it is to NTs. I don't know how many times I have been rebuffed for trying to correct inaccuracies I encounter. I'm told it's close enough, no one cares, etc.
I only make the effort when it is something important enough that misunderstanding it will likely cause problems, but that doesn't matter. Most people just really care more for what they want or like than they care about the truth.

That's probably part of it. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that rules kind of exclude possibilities that we don't need to think about. I'm at home kind of shutdown because there were too many rules and guidelines broken all at once without adequate time to prepare on top of the things that I had already expected to plan for.

I don't see much point in cheating or lying most of the time, as all that seems to do for people is get them in over their heads faster.

I've never been a big fan of lying or cheating for no reason.

I am thinking the same thing. My father who is also asd like me despises lying and cheating, and talking behind people's backs.
He even warns my mom when she talks behind someone's back. I have never seen other people like that. Everyone seems to love being dishonest and it comes naturally to them.

I think studies have shown that autistic people tend to have more integrity than NTs. With that being said however, cheating (and immorality in general), is a human problem, not an NT problem.

My obsession with game rules often got me in trouble for 'cheating'.

"But it's in the rules!" meant nothing compared to "We always did it THIS way!"

Tradition ruled, and anything else was 'cheating'.

If there's a difference, it probably has more to do with there being fewer of us and us having less margin for error when it comes to cheating.

Personally, I hate cheating, just because it makes me work a lot harder to figure out if I'm cheating in a tolerable way or not. I remember recently that my boss wanted me to fill in a bunch of numbers at work incorrectly and he objected to me calling it lying. He called it fibbing, which is somehow not lying. (The numbers weren't ones that really impacted anybody and there was literally no way of actually filling them in accurately due to the way that the software works, it's not like it meant that customers were being cheated or anything like that)

Human nature is inherently selfish.

Rather than lying I tend to provide facts that true without further explanation. Such as my daughter isn't feeling well if she needs a mental day. It is the truth without providing information that may make the decision be a negative. Typically most people won't ask beyond a straight to the point answer even if there is data you are leaving put. Since I was young I have always tried to navigate truthfully even where difficult. This also allows me to do well in difficult social situations... mostly. Like people will more likely side with me. As I am known for being extremely honest. Honest but not mean. That and I also like using logic to an extreme when it's useful. As far as being well dressed. When my wife met me I only had black t shirts and cargo pants. Now I have various colors of t shirts and cargo pants. Black cargo pants.. they match everything. Only time I didnt was my wedding and had a friend dress me lol.