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Flexico
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21 Apr 2024, 8:02 pm

How autistics communicate: [Compose and proofread every sentence in their head before speaking with literal and precise phrasing]

How neurotypicals communicate: [Blurt out some words without thinking too hard, and expect the listener(s) to guess what they mean via context and subtle subconscious body language]

... Ok, WHO exactly have the flawed brains here?!?

Not to mention, the pause that happens while the autistic person formulates a response is often interpreted as proof they're making up a lie.

This century, in the Twilight Zone.



Fnord
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21 Apr 2024, 8:26 pm

[opinion=mine]

It is not so much a case of "flawed brains" as it is the case of "flawed education".

People are not taught how to communicate effectively, but only to provide common cultural references while assuming that everyone knows and understands those same cultural references in the same way.

Listening to some NTs talk is like hearing only the punch lines and being expected to already know and understand all the jokes.

[/opinion]

By the way, it's your turn in the barrel . . .

:wink:


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Flexico
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21 Apr 2024, 8:57 pm

"Assume everyone else knows" yeah that strikes a chord!

... What barrel...?



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22 Apr 2024, 6:42 pm

I see it as being to do with under- and over-explaining.

I certainly have a strong tendency to explain in more detail than most people do, and I need things explaining to me in more detail than most people do.

Nobody's exactly right or wrong. It's not my fault that I don't know what they're on about when they're economical with their explanations. It's not their fault that they're not used to explaining things in detail. But when the problem is clear to both me and them, they can add more detail to help me understand them. In theory I can cut back on my details so that they don't have so much information when they're thinking "yes, yes, we know," but in practice I can't easily do that because I don't know which details they're going to need and which they aren't. I suppose I can just be brief and wait for them to ask me to clarify and perhaps say which bit of what I've said is confusing them, but I don't think they would in most cases. When I ask them to clarify, they often seem to get annoyed, so maybe they think it's rude to probe, or that it reveals ignorance and that in this competitive world it's better to pretend they understand. I don't know.



flat_affect
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22 Apr 2024, 7:43 pm

Flexico wrote:
Not to mention, the pause that happens while the autistic person formulates a response is often interpreted as proof they're making up a lie.


That, or they get impatient and start talking again before I respond.

Flexico wrote:
"Assume everyone else knows" yeah that strikes a chord!


Because they usually do know. How, I have no f***ing idea.

ToughDiamond wrote:
I see it as being to do with under- and over-explaining.

I certainly have a strong tendency to explain in more detail than most people do, and I need things explaining to me in more detail than most people do.

Nobody's exactly right or wrong. It's not my fault that I don't know what they're on about when they're economical with their explanations. It's not their fault that they're not used to explaining things in detail. But when the problem is clear to both me and them, they can add more detail to help me understand them. In theory I can cut back on my details so that they don't have so much information when they're thinking "yes, yes, we know," but in practice I can't easily do that because I don't know which details they're going to need and which they aren't. I suppose I can just be brief and wait for them to ask me to clarify and perhaps say which bit of what I've said is confusing them, but I don't think they would in most cases. When I ask them to clarify, they often seem to get annoyed, so maybe they think it's rude to probe, or that it reveals ignorance and that in this competitive world it's better to pretend they understand. I don't know.


I have the same problem. Even though I know NT's value brevity and simplicity, I can't seem to apply that knowledge in the moment.

I've seen a couple of discussions on YouTube covering that specific difference in NT an autistic communication styles. NT's tend to be relatively brief with their questions and responses, while autistics prefer to give more accurate and complete answers.


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ToughDiamond
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22 Apr 2024, 9:18 pm

flat_affect wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
I see it as being to do with under- and over-explaining.

I certainly have a strong tendency to explain in more detail than most people do, and I need things explaining to me in more detail than most people do.

Nobody's exactly right or wrong. It's not my fault that I don't know what they're on about when they're economical with their explanations. It's not their fault that they're not used to explaining things in detail. But when the problem is clear to both me and them, they can add more detail to help me understand them. In theory I can cut back on my details so that they don't have so much information when they're thinking "yes, yes, we know," but in practice I can't easily do that because I don't know which details they're going to need and which they aren't. I suppose I can just be brief and wait for them to ask me to clarify and perhaps say which bit of what I've said is confusing them, but I don't think they would in most cases. When I ask them to clarify, they often seem to get annoyed, so maybe they think it's rude to probe, or that it reveals ignorance and that in this competitive world it's better to pretend they understand. I don't know.


I have the same problem. Even though I know NT's value brevity and simplicity, I can't seem to apply that knowledge in the moment.

I've seen a couple of discussions on YouTube covering that specific difference in NT an autistic communication styles. NT's tend to be relatively brief with their questions and responses, while autistics prefer to give more accurate and complete answers.

Yes. In writing, if I have the time, I can often boil down what I'm saying to a much shorter summary, but not before I've written the first, verbose draft. Sometimes that comes easy, other times not. In real time it's typically more difficult, though strangely I manage it sometimes. Don't know how. It helps if I'm given enough time to think a bit before answering. It helps if my mind is alert.

What's really frustrating is when I read something, can't understand it, figure out a question to try to help clear the block, ask it, and get a reply that doesn't help at all. Sometimes it's just a matter of time before I happen to notice some element of the context and the penny drops. But not always.



bee33
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22 Apr 2024, 10:07 pm

I so wish I could ask: Am I bothering you right now? Do you want me to stop talking? Do you want me to talk or say more? What are you thinking? Have I explained myself?

Or even to be able to say: I'm sorry but I don't understand.

People take offense when you say you didn't understand them! Instead of just further explaining what they meant.



flat_affect
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23 Apr 2024, 1:17 pm

bee33 wrote:
I so wish I could ask: Am I bothering you right now? Do you want me to stop talking? Do you want me to talk or say more? What are you thinking? Have I explained myself?


Yes! It seems that, in any interaction, I'm waiting for the awkward part where they either suddenly have to leave or they start talking to me like I'm a child. It's like they suddenly realize "oh, you're one of those people" and what seemed like a fairly normal interaction instantly changes.


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23 Apr 2024, 1:22 pm

NTs are herd animals and communicate accordingly. They make incomplete, imprecise statements and expect everyone else to know what they meant...and they sort of do know because typically none of them care about accuracy.


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