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notboston
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27 Sep 2024, 8:54 am

As a kid every “no” or rejection I would communicate would open up some clinical discussion. My parents were comfortable letting my NT siblings sit stuff out but never allowed me to make my own choices.

How do I practice not being a pushover? How can I relearn how to say no or how to not settle for a lesser option when there’s an opportunity for living better?

Does anyone else have this experience? My parents tried to separate me from my NT twin through retention (they held me back in math when I got a B+, for example) and I have always been extremely frustrated not being in control.



ShwaggyD
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03 Oct 2024, 12:03 am

tough question that really doesn't have a simple answer. Saying no to parents can and usually is a battle with them if it isn't the answer they wanted or expected. Society has unconsciously taught parents that their children's opinions aren't as valid as theirs and so they will often not accept any choice that doesn't match theirs. Parents know how to manipulate us emotionally, mentally, and sometimes even physically so in the end we end up giving in to them even though we don't want to.

In general though I find it best to keep it as simple as possible. Don't say yes unless you mean yes completely; no unless you mean that completely. If you don't know yet say that, don't make a decision that you might want or have to change later. If people see that when you say no to something that you don't change your mind, eventually they will recognize this and will quit trying to change your mind so much. I usually tell people I like why I'm saying no, if they respect me they will accept that and if they don't I don't need them in my life anyways.

Hardest part for me is in those situations where I don't know what the right choice is, then I usually just say "I don't know; go without me".



Carbonhalo
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03 Oct 2024, 12:15 am

notboston wrote:
My parents tried to separate me from my NT twin through retention (they held me back in math when I got a B+, for example) and I have always been extremely frustrated not being in control.


I don't get this.
Since my big brother (pretty clearly also aspie) practiced everything he learned in grade 1 on me, they jumped me into grade 2 with him. The schools were always big enough that we rarely had the same class.
I was always the youngest in my class but I was tall enough to get away with it.



timf
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03 Oct 2024, 2:56 am

You might be able to use delay as an element of control. Also, if feeling ramrodded into something you would not prefer, you might find asking for the reasons a way to rebut them.



autisticelders
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03 Oct 2024, 8:34 am

with a lifetime of compliance training (back when that was based on physical punishment) I learned to please and appease others at any cost to myself and learned what I wanted never made a difference or was of interest to anybody. I finally got therapy and was taught that the way I had learned to survive in my early days was "dysfunctional" and not effective, at cost of my mental health as well as physical well being. My therapy was to learn "healthy self assertive communication... how to say NO, how to set and enforce personal boundaries, how to deal with intimidation, manipulation, guilting, and other unhealthy behavior patterns from others. My therapist used the book "when I say NO I feel guilty" by Manuel J Smith. It has been out of print for quite a while but is still available through used book outlets and also now is online as a PDF and also a youtube video. It saved my life and my sanity. That therapy was the best thing I ever did for myself. Look into finding a therapist who can help you learn new and more effective ways to communicate, I had to have my old appeasement behavior explained and practiced these new methods, it really was life changing. Hope you find what you need. I really needed an outsider to help spot the unhealthy ways I had developed even before I could speak in order to save myself from abuse. Those ways did not work when I was a fully grown adult. Cheering you on, I think if I could do this, almost anybody can, and the results are worth it a thousand times over. Do that emotional homework and trust that you too can set yourself free and live a life without interference and manipulation. Keep on keeping on.


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04 Oct 2024, 9:02 am

I have similar trouble refusing the demands of others, but if I start to feel that complying would lead me into serious misery then it becomes easier to say no. Even then I hate to disappoint them, but it helps me to have a few polite phrases of refusal ready. And when I'm able to cut through my black-and-white thinking tendency, sometimes I can think of and offer a compromise, which mitigates my guilt feelings. Basically, for me it's like any other form of courage - I'm rather a coward until life forces me to be brave. For many years I was almost bipolar about these things, probably because my father was.

I don't think it's just an ASD thing. Society in many parts of the world seems to expect folks to pretend that they all love each other to bits, so it can get sticky when something happens that exposes the lie for what it is. OTOH there are groups, cultures, and individuals that have less of a problem with overt self-interest, noncompliance, and even downright hostility. Personally I'd rather stick to what's left of British reserve and courtesy, for the most part, unless the other person gets too aggressive with me.



bsickler
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04 Oct 2024, 9:17 am

notboston wrote:
As a kid every “no” or rejection I would communicate would open up some clinical discussion. My parents were comfortable letting my NT siblings sit stuff out but never allowed me to make my own choices.

How do I practice not being a pushover? How can I relearn how to say no or how to not settle for a lesser option when there’s an opportunity for living better?

Does anyone else have this experience? My parents tried to separate me from my NT twin through retention (they held me back in math when I got a B+, for example) and I have always been extremely frustrated not being in control.


OP, you were infantilized. Infantilization is a super common issue with people who have ASD.

The reason you were infantilized is because NTs literally can not empathize with NDs due to the double empathy problem. Different people react to this problem in different ways - for some people, this lack of empathy results in infantilization.

You need to set boundaries and practice saying “no”. Remember, “no” is a complete sentence!