Looking at people's EYES

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How do you look at someone's eyes, when your own eyes only focus on one point, and peoples eyes are at least 7cm apart...

So really you can only look at one eye at a time...

GA

I wondered this myself for a long time, too, GalileoAce. Actually, one of my teachers brought it up in class, and he said "We only really do look at one eye at a time, but of course our peripheral vision registers that there is another eye," we were talking about how the number of eyes on a character can give it different meanings.

My sister (and I've seen some people on t.v. do this too) looks at one eye at a time, so that her eyes move left and right quite fast, looking at each eye. (She's NT)

I know if I did this, I would probably fall over.

I think 'eye contact' is over-rated. I doubt very much that anyone really does it, unless they are steeling themselves in order to avoid being labelled 'shifty' (which means being dishonest or attempting to deceive or mislead in some way). It is only appropriate among 'intimates', for example amorous/romantic partners and all this talk of peering into someone's eyes is downright invasive - you wouldn't let casual acquaintances or total strangers rummage through your correspondence, so what is the difference between that and invading personal space? I have a brother who is trained up as a counsellor and he has learned to do the body-expressions and overintimate eye-catching stuff, but it is a total ruse and a sham. He is as introverted as I am, but his training tells him that he 'must' do these things.

Those who are the most insistent on 'eye contact' are usually those who are eager to please their 'therapist/counsellor' who has told them it is 'normal' to do eye contact and even though it can easily be faked (looking beyond them, at their mouth, or whatever), they can't read that much from you anyway.

Look at the bridge of their nose. Best compromise. ((Either that or just stare at their chest until they slap you.))

Well, adversarial, you are certainly worthy of your title. What evidence have you gathered your conclusion from?

I base my comments upon personal observations, about getting 'called out' on not doing eye contact and because I question the presumption that it is possible to read people's thoughts in their eyes. I am rather alarmed about the idea that you have to do eye contact during a conversation, when it should be possible to exchange meaning on the basis of words alone. I have a deep mistrust of what is called 'body english' or 'body language', because it varies from culture to culture and you would need to be able to 'tune in' to the different rules, codes and conventions in order to decipher the meaning (such that there is). Apart from the obvious expressions of hostility or aggression in body language, as well as the rote-learned and obvious ones like 'thumbs up == good', the rest of it seems amazingly arbitrary and susceptible to change, misinterpretation and confusion.

I also feel uncomfortable doing it and it always seems to be an affront, a confrontation and a challenge when somebody is 'eye-balling' me. I can not do it very well - enforced eye-contact always seems confrontational to me and if I see anything it is usually hostility or anger.

Eye to eye gaze is very important to people. NTs are able to look into each others' eyes and they feel connected. I am a crisis counselor but used to be a therapist. I was lucky to find out I have aspergers, otherwise i would have just always thought of myself as an underachiever (understatemet).
If I catch someone's eye contact I feel pain.
So I have learned to look at the bridge of the nose or the spot between the eyes. I don't know what people feel when they think they are looking into my eyes. I have trouble with voice tone and body language so I would guess if they see anything they are getting wrong cues there too.
Eye contact is also a way of communicating - that's why people say look at me when they want to prove they are telling the truth about something or when they want to emphasize a point. They mean look at my eyes. There is even a saying look me in the eye and say that, which, I guess acknowledges that you can only look at one at a time. Some people think you are not trustworthy if you can't make eye contact.
I agree that it is overrated, but I think not to the extent you opine. On the other hand, I have not come up with any other feasible, socially acceptable means of connection. Intimate relations are an effective means of connection but I would not want to do that with all my friends or my coworkers.

I do not 'feel connected' when doing eye contact, I feel rather intruded upon. I could be reacting defenisvely, but it just isn't comfortable and I do think it is unnecessary for things like Job Interviews or even in the Work Place.

I just feel much more comfortable not doing it, though looking at someone's face briefly seems to quell most criticisms these days.

I have seen NTs do this successfully. I can't.

Agreed but I also know that much of NT conversation in the US is based on deceit. My therapist tells me this is necessary, but each time we review an event, I am able to prove that it can be done without subterfuge.

This is less under conscious control; it is something I have trained myself to read since I am somewhat face blind.

Again, NTs have the ability to do this. I don't. I think there are some universal rules and NTs just figure out the variations.

This is one of my frequent frustrations with NT conversation. Not only do they change the rules at whim, they also lie about whether the rules have been changed or whether they appy in a particular situation. Why go through all that trouble when you could tell the truth, fight out your differences and trust each other more afterwards?

Just a guess because I've felt this way before - for me it was a vicious cycle where I didn't make eye contact, someone felt uncomfortable, tried harder to make eye contact which made me more avoidant, and then the eye contact becomes suspicious and challenging because the other person is starting to think I'm wierd or somehow wrong.

Agree that eye contact is intrusive (and for me painful), but NTs find it comforting and they run the world. It is part of what makes interpersonal interactions exhausting for me. I am not sure, though, what the pain is. When I was younger I thought I was picking up their feelings. The problem was that I felt their feelings as if they were my own. Ugh. This still happens when I do crisis work. I am sure that the problem is that I am missing some filter that NTs have so they stay separate from someone's feelings or feel them when they want to feel them.

Neuroman, you rule...

GA

I'm reminded of my first therapist in 9?-94. She noticed my lack of eye contact and had an annoying (yet successful) way of dealing with it. She'd say "Look and listen" and put her hands at the side of her head and wave them back and forth between me and her creating a tunnel with her hands so I couldn't get distracted. My mom still does it every know and then. Maybe this only works on me because my main problem is focus, thankyou ADD. I can only achieve decent eye contact with certain people, and I understand the "connection" made. But there's only been a few people in my lifetime that I've made the "connection" with. It's nervewracking, yet soothing at the same time. Nervewracking, because I get scared they might "see through" me. See past that social wall I build and get a good look at the supressed me. Soothing, because I've learned what I've been missing for so long, a personal "connection". It's almost as if I'm actually showing an un-faked emotion and can almost read facial expressions. Facial expressions have always been "iffy" sometimes for me. I'm an audio-tactile learner, looking at things doesn't do much for me. And so, eye contact is also simply against my nature. But there's also lots of people who I could never have enjoyable eye contact with. Most people have a stern, or sometimes angry, look in their eyes. A look of seriousness, something I'd rather not associalte myself with. If the eye contact shows relaxation and laid-back-edness , then it's almost comforting. Almost, because I have my own insecurities always getting in the way of confidence. Insecurities that I'm sure most AS'ers have. OK, rant over. Looking at the beginning of this rant, I sometimes wish everyone I talk to would do the "Look and listen" method of dealing with my focus. As degrading as it is, it works. I actually know someone who does something similar when she notices me getting lost in my thoughts during conversations.

Apparently in some primates including gorillas eye-contact is a sign of aggression.

If someone did that to me I would probably die from hitting my head. Just reading the description made me intensely uncomfortable.
I wonder now if my problem is that eye contact is overstimulating. Every once in a while I try looking at someone's eyes to see if it has gotten any better. The last time, I cried (highly unusual for me). I get so overwhelmed that I haven't developed a description of what happens to me. I'm just happy to recover.
Glad to hear you could make connections. Maybe there's hope for me.

So is the showing of teeth. So maybe I don't have all those filters NTs have developed via evolution. Its my belief that a lot of them are no longer functional.

Jack is glad to be less civilized....