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Should we declare ourselves a minority?
Poll ended at 16 Jan 2005, 11:50 am
Yes 28%  28%  [ 22 ]
Yes 28%  28%  [ 22 ]
No 15%  15%  [ 12 ]
No 15%  15%  [ 12 ]
Dont Know 6%  6%  [ 5 ]
Dont Know 6%  6%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 78

ASMAN
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17 Nov 2004, 11:50 am

Here is a sample statement that we could use to make our official declaration -

Members of the autism community, comprising those with conditions on the autism spectrum, such as autism and asperger's, are hereby declaring that we are a minority group and wish to be accorded the legal protection and freedom from discrimination that is shown to other minority groups.

We recognise ourselves as a minority group based on the following factors-
People on the autism spectrum have their own way of using language and communication that is different from the general population, is often misunderstood and can cause a bias against us.
Autism spectrum conditions are scientifically proven to be largely genetic and heritable. Many of those on the autism spectrum who have children bear children who are also on the spectrum, this needs to be recognised to avoid the frequency of criticsm of autistic parents and discrimination that is suffered as to misunderstanding of the different needs, and communication between family members on the spectrum.
People on the autism spectrum have a unique social network, this is primarily using communication with text on the internet. It is an invaluable community for many of us. There should be increased availability and recognition for this autism community online so that isolated spectrumites can join and participate.
People on the autism spectrum have our own cultural differences, unique habits, such as stimming and different perspectives than the norm. We feel it is essential that this is recognised as these "traits" are the things that some children and adults are forced to stop by some harsh and intensive therapies. We should have the right to be ourselves, without the pressure to conform and change our cultural differences.
We experience discrimination in various forms, often because of our different use of language and communication, habitual differences such as stimming, and lack of acknowledgemnt that autistic parents may have autistic children, and differences in the children are not due to poor parenting, but the innate differneces of our minority group.
The members of the autism community are facing an imminent threat of possible cure, in whatever fashion that may transpire, pre natal testing for autism that could mean a form of eugenics, and total prevention from genetic counselling before conception. We have grave concerns of the possibilty of being forced to accept a cure, of parents being forced to cure children, and of there being great pressure put on parents on the spectrum to have genetic tests, or pre natal screening. In the same sense that this would be entirely unacceptable to cure someones skin colour, we feel that our differences need to be respected and our minority group to be protected.

We could also include this in a working statement by way of explanation-
The classic definition of prejudice is the one put forth by the famous Harvard psychologist, Gordon Allport, who published The Nature of Prejudice in 1954: "Prejudice is an antipathy based on faulty and inflexible generalization. It may be felt or expressed. It may be directed toward a group or an individual of that group".
THE DEFINITION OF MINORITY GROUPS (OUT-GROUPS):

1. They are oppressed or persecuted at the hands of a dominant group, and as a result of the power differential that develops, they are disadvantaged, and the dominant group is advantaged.
2. They are distinguished by physical or cultural traits that distinguish them from the dominant group, allowing them to be easily "lumped" together and "placed" is less desirable locations.
3. They are self-conscious, with an idea of one-ness or peoplehood, based upon the perception of common suffering and burdens.
4. Membership is not voluntary, but is instead an ascribed position where the person is born into this status.
5. By choice or necessity, they usually marry within their own group (endogamy). It is by choice to preserve a unique cultural heritage or by necessity because the dominant group scorns or discourages intermarriage.

Please reply and say if there should be changes, omissions, or additions, as we would like to implement this as soon as possible and approach official bodies with it.



duncvis
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17 Nov 2004, 12:10 pm

ASMAN wrote:
5. By choice or necessity, they usually marry within their own group (endogamy). It is by choice to preserve a unique cultural heritage or by necessity because the dominant group scorns or discourages intermarriage.


:roll: Not sure about this bit ASMAN, the majority of Aspies with a long term relationship/marriage seem to have a non-Aspie partner... tolerance and a willingness to learn and appreciate each others ways are more of a factor than anything else I feel, and wonder if anyone else feels the same. Personally I have been with a non-Aspie for 11 years, and there are a number of other AS folk on the site with a non-Aspie partner. So not sure if that applies really.

The rest looks ok though.

Dunc


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NoMore
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17 Nov 2004, 12:47 pm

duncvis wrote:
the majority of Aspies with a long term relationship/marriage seem to have a non-Aspie partner... tolerance and a willingness to learn and appreciate each others ways are more of a factor than anything else I feel, and wonder if anyone else feels the same. Personally I have been with a non-Aspie for 11 years, and there are a number of other AS folk on the site with a non-Aspie partner. So not sure if that applies really.


I agree, Dunc. I've been with my non-Aspie husband for 22 years.



ASMAN
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17 Nov 2004, 1:02 pm

Most aspies are ALONE then with other Aspies. We do it seems find one another!! !



Wolfy
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17 Nov 2004, 2:05 pm

Greetings,

What has having an NT partner got to do with being a minority?

If someone from an ethnic minority marries outside their group it dosent mean theyre not still part of that minority does it?


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MishLuvsHer2Boys
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17 Nov 2004, 3:08 pm

Having an NT partner has nothing to do with being a minority, minorities intermarry between them and date between them and no fuss has been put up as big as apparently this has the potential to get, we don't have a choice in whether are parents are NT, our partners, our kids. It is genetic-based, it's not a minority thing. As far as marriages, you tend to be with the person you love, not just because they are NT or AS or whatever else.

I for one don't think the Aspie/Autistic community is united enough to really even propose itself as a community yet. Especially with the seeming hatred and intolerance of NTs that seems to be going through some groups of Aspie/Autistic individuals. If we want to be recognized as a minority, we best learn the concept of tolerance if we expect others to tolerate us.

This is my opinion and honestly until tolerance can be had of NTs, why would NTs have the tolerance of us enough to recognize Aspies/Autistics as a minority when there is a supposed 'AS Mafia' and such forming? If you can't tolerate others then what is the purpose of being a minority, what if this serves to further isolate us even further? Anything is possible. While it all looks good in writing for the most part, maturity and tolerance in general has to back it or it's useless outside of typed words.

But as I reiterate, this is my opinion and it is only one of many potentially different opinions that could arise.



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17 Nov 2004, 3:22 pm

i don't understand this thread at all.

are haemophiliacs a minority? are short-sighted people? are people with more or less than the standard leg-length in trousers?

the phrase is "discriminated against". there are any number of discriminatory practices in the world. we are all, basically, in a minority of one.

i don't understand why we should be so militant - discrimination, where it occurs in this case, is through ignorance or lack of information.

please someone explain this thread to me?

V



coyote
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17 Nov 2004, 3:36 pm

Quote:
"This is my opinion and honestly until tolerance can be had of NTs, why would NTs have the tolerance of us enough to recognize Aspies/Autistics as a minority when there is a supposed 'AS Mafia' and such forming?"



Say again ? an AS mafia ? 8O I would like to know more about that. Does it have something to do with the "next evolution" thing ? You can answer me here or PM i you prefer, thanks
:)



MishLuvsHer2Boys
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17 Nov 2004, 3:38 pm

Morgvis, beats me, it all seems to stem from a smaller group trying to advocate for others with their own opinions that are supposedly to be representative of the majority of the group. It's too bad it's usually the few that are potential to risk the many. I do agree on some of the points but right now I don't feel that it is appropriate to try and do it unless the group can find a way to be representative of the majority and to do that would mean seeking out autistics/aspies not only on the internet but offline as well. That is an enormous and near impossible task as not everyone has net access or reads English.



ASMAN
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17 Nov 2004, 5:05 pm

1) There IS NO AS MAFIA forming!! !! For the love of sanity, Where did mish get that??? Since as many know Mish and vertivert are members of AFF, they show that a sad rumour started by an ex AFF MEMBER about us being an "aspie-mafia" was wrong and was and IS a joke. Just make it clear this mafia nonsense was a spoof by an ex- member who has since recanted and not AFF.

2) being a minority is NOT intolerant. ya know, Before I was diagnosed, I used to joke I was a minority of one because everyone was and seemed different. That was after I finally figured out most ppl were not like me.

3) Being a minority is NOT discrimination. You gather as a minority BECAUSE OF discrimination.

4) NTs are NOT the enemy. The status quo is the enemy. Please DO NOT CONFUSE THE TWO! The fact is NT parents have WAY too much say over issues that affect us!! We should have equal say!!



TaliDaRadical
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17 Nov 2004, 5:34 pm

As an Autistic person of color who is already involved in ethnic activism, I believe that disabled people of all types are already classified as a protected minority....
If you're saying that Autistics are a separate race, that's quite silly. Autistics don't look different than anybody else. We come in all colors and nationalities.



MishLuvsHer2Boys
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17 Nov 2004, 6:14 pm

Ok, to set the facts straight ASMAN since you have apparently not got them straight about me. I did not once state that because I talk to others on AFF (forum or chatroom) that I was a 'member' of what they and you are trying to accomplish by seeking to become a minority. I became a member of the site simply to talk to others about general topics of interest to Aspies/Autistics.

I did not once claim to share the same beliefs that are being presented by going for a minority. Membership on a website does not dictate full shared beliefs. I talk to others for simple that, just out of interest in general in talking to other Aspies/Autistics, not because I am like you or others that feel they need a 'minority' to reach some form of acceptance by NTs.

From talking to you, I find you very non-tolerant of NTs period. That is my opinion so instead of making assumptions that I share your beliefs, start learning that not everyone is as intolerant of NTs as you may feel the need to be.

I'd appreciate if you'd get your facts straight as far as my being on AFF because I supposedly share your belief, I do not. That doesn't make me a horrible person or an NT or anything else, it makes me an individual who doesn't happen to have the same opinion.

You have said some things in the past and even still that honestly make me disgusted at times to think I share even being an Aspie in common with you. I am sorry to say that about anyone in general but your attitude is negative and narrow-minded at times.



ASMAN
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17 Nov 2004, 6:53 pm

MishLuvsHer2Boys wrote:
Ok, to set the facts straight ASMAN since you have apparently not got them straight about me. I did not once state that because I talk to others on AFF (forum or chatroom) that I was a 'member' of what they and you are trying to accomplish by seeking to become a minority. I became a member of the site simply to talk to others about general topics of interest to Aspies/Autistics.

I did not once claim to share the same beliefs that are being presented by going for a minority. Membership on a website does not dictate full shared beliefs. I talk to others for simple that, just out of interest in general in talking to other Aspies/Autistics, not because I am like you or others that feel they need a 'minority' to reach some form of acceptance by NTs.




Hi mish

Being a member doesnot mean that u are for minority status. We at AFF are for EQUAL TREATMENT. Building an autistic culture online and offline.
U can be a member of AFF without being explicitly for minority status. OK fine you come to chat. That is ok with me. But Are you stating for the record you are NOT a member of AFF just a chatroom gadfly?Which is fine

MishLuvsHer2Boys wrote:

From talking to you, I find you very non-tolerant of NTs period. That is my opinion so instead of making assumptions that I share your beliefs, start learning that not everyone is as intolerant of NTs as you may feel the need to be.


I am very tolerant of NTs. They should be so tolerant of me.


MishLuvsHer2Boys wrote:
You have said some things in the past and even still that honestly make me disgusted at times to think I share even being an Aspie in common with you. I am sorry to say that about anyone in general but your attitude is negative and narrow-minded at times.


Well, sometimes with the things you say i feel that way about you.
I just never logged them in an "enemies List" they way you seemed to have done. It took you a long time to come to grips with the fact I am not MrPink Who was horrible to you.



MishLuvsHer2Boys
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17 Nov 2004, 7:06 pm

Thank you for differently re-stating almost word for word everything I stated, you can be a member of something and not always share the views, I go on the forum to talk to others simple as that, if you can't respect that, it's your problem not mine. And whether I come to a chat room because I want to talk in general or specific about any issue is my choice. It's funny how you seem to think it's your permission I need to be able to talk or anything on AFF when really it's ultimately Amy and Gareth that can choose if they don't feel they want me on there or not. Also by the way, you could do with a little more clearer phrasing so people can understand things better as most times I can't make sense of most things you say. :)



ASMAN
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17 Nov 2004, 7:21 pm

MishLuvsHer2Boys wrote:
Thank you for differently re-stating almost word for word everything I stated, you can be a member of something and not always share the views, I go on the forum to talk to others simple as that, if you can't respect that, it's your problem not mine.

We agree then.

MishLuvsHer2Boys wrote:

And whether I come to a chat room because I want to talk in general or specific about any issue is my choice. It's funny how you seem to think it's your permission I need to be able to talk or anything on AFF when really it's ultimately Amy and Gareth that can choose if they don't feel they want me on there or not.


OK well I never said anybody needed my permission at all did I? You are reading between lines and misunderstanding.

MishLuvsHer2Boys wrote:
Also by the way, you could do with a little more clearer phrasing so people can understand things better as most times I can't make sense of most things you say. :)


Well not even going to dignify that with a remark



batman
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18 Nov 2004, 9:50 pm

We don't have to declare are selves a minoirity we all ready are one. :roll: :wink: :P :D :)