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cosmiccat
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22 Nov 2007, 12:01 pm

A recent experiment by Yale researchers suggests that babies (6-10 months) have the ability to judge good (helpful) from bad (unhelpful or antagonistic) characters. It would be interesting to know if the same results would occur if the babies being tested were other than neuro typical. How early in childhood or infancy can Autism or Asperger's Syndrome be detected? Could this become a way of testing for children on the spectrum? I have heard it said many times on WP that children are attracted to people with AS. Could that be because they see "good" or honesty, trustworthiness, kindness, helpfulness, etc., etc. in people with Asperger's? I do not mean to imply in anyway that NT's are 'bad" or not kind, honest, helpful, etc. That would be ridiculous and unfair. I personally believe that, if in fact, children are attracted to people with AS, it is probably due to like attracting like. That children see Aspies less as "authority" figures (or threatening) and identify with them and their child-like personalities as one of their own kind. What do you think?

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Greentea
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22 Nov 2007, 4:19 pm

Babies are known to use phoniness as early as 6 months old. Smiling is at first a reflex that doesn't mean being contented or anything positive. At about 6 months a baby starts controlling the reflex to smile when the cradle is approched by an adult, to get attention and thus fulfill their needs.

Hypocrisy is not only a thing of adults. Babies are represented as all innocent in culture, but not because it's true.


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cosmiccat
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23 Nov 2007, 12:12 pm

Greentea wrote:
Babies are known to use phoniness as early as 6 months old. Smiling is at first a reflex that doesn't mean being contented or anything positive. At about 6 months a baby starts controlling the reflex to smile when the cradle is approched by an adult, to get attention and thus fulfill their needs.

Hypocrisy is not only a thing of adults. Babies are represented as all innocent in culture, but not because it's true.


That's very interesting, Greentea, regarding babies using phoniness. My daughter and and two children live with us. The kids are 2 years and 5 years. I was present at the birth of the five year old and both kids have lived with us since birth. I have 5 children and 13 grandchildren, so I have observed babies for many, many years. I think they are absolutely innocent and could not possibly be anything but. However, my daughter who I mentioned above, has insisted from the beginning that her first child was "faking " or "a little liar" in regard to much of his behavior during infancy (pretending to be asleep is one example). And then, when her daughter was born she called her a "drama queen" when she was only a few weeks old. She seriously believed the baby was deliberately acting in a dramatic manner. I have seen a newborn grandson gaze into his mother's eyes and smile only a few hours after birth. This was a smile that was definitely not a reflex. So I would have to disagree with you and my daughter about what a baby is capable of.



Greentea
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23 Nov 2007, 12:20 pm

No, you're not disagreeing with me. You're disagreeing with decades of scientific research. It's widespread knowledge.


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23 Nov 2007, 12:26 pm

Oh this topic again. Yeah this was already put here days ago.


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23 Nov 2007, 1:44 pm

My Son hated everyone except for my Mother and me at that age...he would generally calm down after a point and ignore anyone who was there(except his cousin, but she wouldn't leave him alone and he thought she was hilarious with how spastic she is) it was only recently that he stopped screaming when even his Father came over(he's 26 months now). I remember taking him to a playgroup with my best-friend and her daughter and he didn't react to anyone, just stared off, which was fine by me. He only smiled at one of them a few hours after when we were at a resturaunt and I remember that woman saying "There's a smile, I knew you had a personality!".

My best-friend's daughter on the other hand has always been very social playing with and talking to people. I don't know if she's ever cried because of not liking someone, she's only 4 months younger than my son. I should mention my son is autistic.
Most kids I've come across between the 6-10 months age range are very social and enjoy being around people. So, I dunno...kids that age always seem so trusting and don't seem to be aware to wether or not someone is good or bad...just people.

Though, the first man my son didn't scream at when he first walked in the door is my current boyfriend who has Asperger's...I don't know what that says. =P



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23 Nov 2007, 2:23 pm

One of the great steps forward in this research came with a genetic condition (which my daughter has) called "Williams Syndrome". The condition is a result of some chromosomal deletions, notably those chromosomes that cause people to be able to instinctually judge people's agression and threat level. My daughter has no "stranger danger" instinct and never has. People with WS tend to be overly friendly and talkative even when inapropriate, and this starts as "the williams stare" when they are babies. a 1 day old infant will intently stare at your eyes waiting for acknowledgement of her presence, at which point she will react as positivly as a 1 day old can. It is very interesting to watch and contemplate.

Mainly the implications are that since WS people are missing the genetic information which causes babies to be "shy" or socially cautious, so they interact more as babies. It is just amazing to think that a typical 1 day old is actually concerned with (on an instinctual level) about what is socially apropriate is an amazing thing to think about.

That's one of the main reasons why Williams Syndrome is more researched than many other much more common genetic differences, because the deletion is so localized, and the behavior and physical traits are so well defined that we have made leaps and bounds in research about genetic social behaviors just from the few years since (I think) around 1993 when they discovered the chromosomal deletion.


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23 Nov 2007, 3:19 pm

cosmiccat wrote:
Greentea wrote:
Babies are known to use phoniness as early as 6 months old. Smiling is at first a reflex that doesn't mean being contented or anything positive. At about 6 months a baby starts controlling the reflex to smile when the cradle is approched by an adult, to get attention and thus fulfill their needs.

Hypocrisy is not only a thing of adults. Babies are represented as all innocent in culture, but not because it's true.


That's very interesting, Greentea, regarding babies using phoniness. My daughter and and two children live with us. The kids are 2 years and 5 years. I was present at the birth of the five year old and both kids have lived with us since birth. I have 5 children and 13 grandchildren, so I have observed babies for many, many years. I think they are absolutely innocent and could not possibly be anything but. However, my daughter who I mentioned above, has insisted from the beginning that her first child was "faking " or "a little liar" in regard to much of his behavior during infancy (pretending to be asleep is one example). And then, when her daughter was born she called her a "drama queen" when she was only a few weeks old. She seriously believed the baby was deliberately acting in a dramatic manner. I have seen a newborn grandson gaze into his mother's eyes and smile only a few hours after birth. This was a smile that was definitely not a reflex. So I would have to disagree with you and my daughter about what a baby is capable of.

I wouldn't think that as hypocricy, the "faking" could be a response triggered when someone is near and reacts to get the attention because it will be pleasent for the child, which probably could be confused for "faking" or something. Althought they are considered innocent, babies are selfish, because they know themselves before their surroundings.


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cosmiccat
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25 Nov 2007, 9:01 am

shaggydaddy wrote:
One of the great steps forward in this research came with a genetic condition (which my daughter has) called "Williams Syndrome". The condition is a result of some chromosomal deletions, notably those chromosomes that cause people to be able to instinctually judge people's agression and threat level. My daughter has no "stranger danger" instinct and never has. People with WS tend to be overly friendly and talkative even when inapropriate, and this starts as "the williams stare" when they are babies. a 1 day old infant will intently stare at your eyes waiting for acknowledgement of her presence, at which point she will react as positivly as a 1 day old can. It is very interesting to watch and contemplate.

Mainly the implications are that since WS people are missing the genetic information which causes babies to be "shy" or socially cautious, so they interact more as babies. It is just amazing to think that a typical 1 day old is actually concerned with (on an instinctual level) about what is socially apropriate is an amazing thing to think about.

That's one of the main reasons why Williams Syndrome is more researched than many other much more common genetic differences, because the deletion is so localized, and the behavior and physical traits are so well defined that we have made leaps and bounds in research about genetic social behaviors just from the few years since (I think) around 1993 when they discovered the chromosomal deletion.


That is absolutely amazing Shaggy. "Williams stare may have been what I witnessed in that newborn (another grandchild) gazing at his mother with a beautiful smile. The overly friendly and talkative behavior of Williams Syndrome, does it continue into adulthood or can behavior modification (learning from parents primarily) be of help? It seems to me that a lot of problems might arise from it, especially during the teen-age years.



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25 Nov 2007, 12:46 pm

Greentea wrote:
Babies are known to use phoniness as early as 6 months old. Smiling is at first a reflex that doesn't mean being contented or anything positive. At about 6 months a baby starts controlling the reflex to smile when the cradle is approched by an adult, to get attention and thus fulfill their needs.

Hypocrisy is not only a thing of adults. Babies are represented as all innocent in culture, but not because it's true.


Maybe the baby just wants attention, and is happy to see the adult. Maybe it's happy to get it's smelly diaper off, or get some food, just because it's fulfilling a need doesn't mean it's being deceitful.



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25 Nov 2007, 4:35 pm

In my humble opinion, if you're looking for social cues and such in a newborn, you're overdoing things.

Newborns know hungry/fed wet/dry snuggled/left to cry. That's about it.

It's the way you meet those needs that eventually forms a personality (by the age of three). If you're angry or cold in dealing with the baby, then you're going to do some serious damage. If you feed the kid when the kid is hungry, change them when necessary, and make them feel loved, then you've got to wait for quite some time before you're going to see any social pathology.

I'd stop looking so closely.

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