Obvious disabilities in people and reactions to it

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Sora
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22 Jan 2008, 12:28 pm

Let me tell you a scene that I have witnessed, because it keeps my mind occupied since 8 o'clock in the morning for many reasons.

On my way to school this morning the bus was extraordinary empty which allowed me a full view of the people who entered the bus in the front. Every morning, a couple of clearly disabled people get in the bus. The children (age 6 to 20) point at them, whisper and show clear uneasiness. When they got into the bus today, one said down just in the seat opposite to my teacher who also took the bus. And the one thing my teacher did was flinching and rearranging himself in his seat to get further away from said person as if the person was something really disgusting.

Some of these people actually sat on the free seats next to me once and they were really nice and they joked with me too. There is nothing disgusting about them!

In school, this teacher from the bus isn't loved, but compared to others well tolerated. He's assumed to be an 'okay person'. YEAH, obviously he's a very okay person because he looks down on people with differences! (It's sarcasm, I think it's good sarcasm.)

Nobody that I talked to about this today was interested in the fact that a teacher of all people reacted disgusted by being confronted with a disability. The fact that disabled people were on the bus was of much more interest to all of them.

I have no experience with anything other than my autism and nobody I know has a disability, but I never felt a moment uneasy around the people from the bus. The NT girl from the same bus who talks to me admitted she feels terribly uneasy around them and would wish they'd just not take the bus! But why?

And I ought to mention that I'm in one of the teacher's classes and I'm about to explain at school that I'm autistic. I can take all his possible discrimination, because I'm okay with being autistic. I assume this isn't going to be fun. I guess I'm going to tell on here how it went when I did it.
But I just think it's wrong that people are allowed to display this attitude so clearly that even I can recognise it. And teachers of all people! Teachers who teach you about the world!

I just don't get why people react like this. The last time a person made me uneasy was when I was six and met an African person for the very first time. But then I was so curious that I deliberately shook hands with him and tried introducing myself (which was a big deal for everybody else, because nobody expected me to 'wake up from the autism dream world').
Come to think of it. When I was twelve a father took me by my collar and threatened to beat me bloody and dead, because I didn't make way for his 8-10 year old son. I admit, it made me very scared of all parents for several years.

Now, the point why I actually started talking about this on here, besides the fact that nobody seems interested in discrimination against clearly disabled people in my personal everyday life, is because I really want to know how the community of WP thinks about this. Mainly because autism itself is an invisible disability if you don't count odd behaviour in public.
Thoughts on the teacher, thoughts on how you feel about the 'uneasiness' and of course thoughts on reactions you got for a disability that were much like the teacher's reaction (witnesses are also welcome to share what they have witnessed).


Edit: And please tell me why people feel uneasy. I don't believe it's a fear of the unknown. I also fear the unknown and unstructured, but it doesn't make me any more uneasy about disabilities than it does of anything else. And sitting next to a person certainly isn't about confrontation with the unknown either I think. At least I think it isn't.



itw
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22 Jan 2008, 12:57 pm

I think the teacher is maybe immature or very closed minded. Unfortunately, I think quite a few people are like that. I find that my HFA has opened my mind to differences in others more so than NT's ever have to. It's made me more compassionate. I have two autistic nephews that are also severely developmentally disabled. So, I've witnessed their affect on others most my life. It's like some people think it's contagious. :lol: We gravitate towards people who are more like ourselves. Some people just automatically think people that aren't like them are weird. Some people also just think of someone with a disability as less of a person - less intelligent, more dependent.



2ukenkerl
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22 Jan 2008, 1:02 pm

You never even said HOW they were so obviously disabled.

As for your teacher's reaction to you? I bet he will be shocked, and say you're WRONG!



rushfanatic
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22 Jan 2008, 1:03 pm

Sora wrote:
Let me tell you a scene that I have witnessed, because it keeps my mind occupied since 8 o'clock in the morning for many reasons.

On my way to school this morning the bus was extraordinary empty which allowed me a full view of the people who entered the bus in the front. Every morning, a couple of clearly disabled people get in the bus. The children (age 6 to 20) point at them, whisper and show clear uneasiness. When they got into the bus today, one said down just in the seat opposite to my teacher who also took the bus. And the one thing my teacher did was flinching and rearranging himself in his seat to get further away from said person as if the person was something really disgusting.

Some of these people actually sat on the free seats next to me once and they were really nice and they joked with me too. There is nothing disgusting about them!

In school, this teacher from the bus isn't loved, but compared to others well tolerated. He's assumed to be an 'okay person'. YEAH, obviously he's a very okay person because he looks down on people with differences! (It's sarcasm, I think it's good sarcasm.)

Nobody that I talked to about this today was interested in the fact that a teacher of all people reacted disgusted by being confronted with a disability. The fact that disabled people were on the bus was of much more interest to all of them.

I have no experience with anything other than my autism and nobody I know has a disability, but I never felt a moment uneasy around the people from the bus. The NT girl from the same bus who talks to me admitted she feels terribly uneasy around them and would wish they'd just not take the bus! But why?

And I ought to mention that I'm in one of the teacher's classes and I'm about to explain at school that I'm autistic. I can take all his possible discrimination, because I'm okay with being autistic. I assume this isn't going to be fun. I guess I'm going to tell on here how it went when I did it.
But I just think it's wrong that people are allowed to display this attitude so clearly that even I can recognise it. And teachers of all people! Teachers who teach you about the world!

I just don't get why people react like this. The last time a person made me uneasy was when I was six and met an African person for the very first time. But then I was so curious that I deliberately shook hands with him and tried introducing myself (which was a big deal for everybody else, because nobody expected me to 'wake up from the autism dream world').
Come to think of it. When I was twelve a father took me by my collar and threatened to beat me bloody and dead, because I didn't make way for his 8-10 year old son. I admit, it made me very scared of all parents for several years.

Now, the point why I actually started talking about this on here, besides the fact that nobody seems interested in discrimination against clearly disabled people in my personal everyday life, is because I really want to know how the community of WP thinks about this. Mainly because autism itself is an invisible disability if you don't count odd behaviour in public.
Thoughts on the teacher, thoughts on how you feel about the 'uneasiness' and of course thoughts on reactions you got for a disability that were much like the teacher's reaction (witnesses are also welcome to share what they have witnessed).


Edit: And please tell me why people feel uneasy. I don't believe it's a fear of the unknown. I also fear the unknown and unstructured, but it doesn't make me any more uneasy about disabilities than it does of anything else. And sitting next to a person certainly isn't about confrontation with the unknown either I think. At least I think it isn't.
Greetings...This is something that always bothers me, and it is just another example of people morals,of not treating people like they deserve to be treated, it's just society's downward spiral..When I needed to pick up my daughter at school, I would watch the kids around her, see if they acknowledged her, were respectful of her. etc. because she was mainstreamed.. She is not graceful, she has tiny ears for her body type, she is different..but to me she is beautiful and pure-hearted, and deserves to be acknowledged without being mocked or laughed at.. We are all left to fend for ourselves in this world, and I do not have an answer other than making fun of people who they see as "lesser' in this world just makes the offender feel better about themselves for a few simple moments.......



itw
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22 Jan 2008, 1:11 pm

rushfanatic wrote:
[We are all left to fend for ourselves in this world, and I do not have an answer other than making fun of people who they see as "lesser' in this world just makes the offender feel better about themselves for a few simple moments.......


That is right on the mark. People like to see themselves as superior.



rushfanatic
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22 Jan 2008, 1:15 pm

itw wrote:
rushfanatic wrote:
[We are all left to fend for ourselves in this world, and I do not have an answer other than making fun of people who they see as "lesser' in this world just makes the offender feel better about themselves for a few simple moments.......


That is right on the mark. People like to see themselves as superior.
This makes me want to cry now, whenever I see others who are being treated wrongly, I say a little prayer of ," bless this child" to myself....If those fools could only be in the shoes of those they taunt,I tell you, how different this world could be. :cry:



itw
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22 Jan 2008, 1:40 pm

rushfanatic wrote:
This makes me want to cry now, whenever I see others who are being treated wrongly, I say a little prayer of ," bless this child" to myself....If those fools could only be in the shoes of those they taunt,I tell you, how different this world could be. :cry:


Unfortunately, I think you can only really learn compassion through suffering and most people don't want their kids to suffer. It sucks. We can only hope that someday, more and more people will see that success isn't achieving that high paying job, expensive car and mansion, but, that being successful is being at peace with yourself and others no matter what our differences are.



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22 Jan 2008, 1:43 pm

itw wrote:
rushfanatic wrote:
This makes me want to cry now, whenever I see others who are being treated wrongly, I say a little prayer of ," bless this child" to myself....If those fools could only be in the shoes of those they taunt,I tell you, how different this world could be. :cry:


Unfortunately, I think you can only really learn compassion through suffering and most people don't want their kids to suffer. It sucks. We can only hope that someday, more and more people will see that success isn't achieving that high paying job, expensive car and mansion, but, that being successful is being at peace with yourself and others no matter what our differences are.
ITW, Someday.someday.. :) Peace to You..



Sora
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22 Jan 2008, 1:56 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
You never even said HOW they were so obviously disabled.


I didn't, really, because I didn't get what is the 'obviousness' with most of them. I'm not an indication though, I never ever get this. I realised the three I sat with were absolutely not neurotypical when listening to their talking. They even talked about how the other people were mean to them and ignored them because they're disabled. That was said by the extroverted guy with the glasses.
'Obvious disability' goes from neurotypical standards. The NT girl says it's scary how they act and that they look absolutely ridiculous, which does apply to the clothing of two of them, because it's horribly out of fashion. She told me everybody in the bus knows they're disabled and pointed out to me when the young children talked about them. Even two adults.

I could ask her though. But that would force me into a situation I don't know how to get out, because I'd have to say that I don't know what wrong with them other than that they obviously don't act neurotypical.

I tried to look at the papers of the people and they said that they're registered for disability services (you have to show the driver your ticket and there are special tickets for people who have an officially recognised a disability and need free or special services).

By now, one year after I met the three, there are a lot more people, one was once accompanied, but he never returned, one has what looks like a moderate spasticity and the rest is not obviously disabled in my eyes, but odd (one talked to imaginary mobile phones and one talked loudly to nobody and to a listener, non of which he says makes sense).

2ukenkerl wrote:
As for your teacher's reaction to you? I bet he will be shocked, and say you're WRONG!


His reaction to me? I don't think he will be shocked. He dislikes me very very much from the first moment on.



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22 Jan 2008, 2:08 pm

This reminds me of something comedian/transvestite Eddie Izzard once said about people's reaction to seeing him:

Eddie Izzard wrote:
Sometimes news agents are quite interesting. You know, the news agents probably see a lot of people coming in, not many blokes in makeup, and they see me and I see the signal goes through to the brain, and the brain goes,
“No information on this! No information! No information! No previous experience in this area… No previous… no previous… no previous experience… Don’t know what the f**k to do. Suggestions, get all the packs of crisps out of the way! Okay, we’ll do that… So I’ll tie all these papers together. All right… What- what- what do you want?!”
I can see that in their eyes, and I say, “I want a pack of crisps! ...I’ve got money.” And they go, “What, you eat crisps? Thought you wanted to shag crisps!”
“No, I don’t do that…”
It’s funny, as soon as you start talking, they go, ‘Oh, all right…” Yeah… Interesting…”


I think it's kind of the same sort of deal. When some people face a person they don't have any clearly established social norms to apply to, they panic because they don't know what they're supposed to do. If they help the disabled person, they might be viewed as patronizing, but if they don't, they might be viewed as mean, so they get really uncomfortable and try to become invisible or pretend like they don't even notice the person is there. Most NT's are very dependent on their social norms.


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22 Jan 2008, 2:20 pm

I would only reveal your autism on a need-to-know basis. People don't understand, it's just not gonna do any good for anyone. Do you want people to act uncomfortable around you? I've heard of out-of-the-closet aspies getting harassed.
As for the teacher, teachers are people too, and a lot of people are messed up. It's not necessarily his fault if he's prejudiced, his reaction is likely unconscious.



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22 Jan 2008, 2:44 pm

It's not so much fear of the unknown I think as just in general not wanting to get involved with someone with disabilities. Some people with disabilities can be pretty high maintenance.

I think people are uncomfortable in general because they don't know what to do. They have this kind of thinking:

"What do you talk about? They aren't normal, so you can't have a normal conversation about normal things."

"And what if they do something weird? Then you'll be embarrassed for knowing them for acting so weird."

"What if they talk to you in public outside the venue of the bus. Then what do you do?"

People, especially NT's are so worried about the way that things look on the surface that they forget to think about how it looks inside their hearts. Like God is going to judge them more favourably because they have Prada shoes, a Gucci bag, and a Rolex watch.


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22 Jan 2008, 3:03 pm

Liverbird wrote:
It's not so much fear of the unknown I think as just in general not wanting to get involved with someone with disabilities. Some people with disabilities can be pretty high maintenance.

I think people are uncomfortable in general because they don't know what to do. They have this kind of thinking:

"What do you talk about? They aren't normal, so you can't have a normal conversation about normal things."

"And what if they do something weird? Then you'll be embarrassed for knowing them for acting so weird."

"What if they talk to you in public outside the venue of the bus. Then what do you do?"

People, especially NT's are so worried about the way that things look on the surface that they forget to think about how it looks inside their hearts. Like God is going to judge them more favourably because they have Prada shoes, a Gucci bag, and a Rolex watch.
My grandma used to remind my mom, "You're known by who you associate with"..Some people may not feel comfortable associating with those who are different as well, though I find that extremely shallow....Just another thought here...



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22 Jan 2008, 3:22 pm

Reactons vs Proactions topic

I say proactions because I want to be proactive and not react or shoot from the hip when I am surprised or not expecting an event. I prefer the rational approach to viewing that which is different, and not to prejudge to the best of my ability. Lord knows I am certainly not mainstream.

Having said as much, I would study the situation and choose the best response, and in this case to make a note of it and contact the appropriate department to discuss the injustice. No one should be subjected to harrassment because of difference of any sort. Perceived injustices are to be addressed. If you are wrong then this is an error on the side of caution.

Addressing perceived injustices in order to correct them is a more humane approach.

There is a WP poster named Anbuend who has written some very thoughtful and complex ideas on understanding and assisting marginalized people living the Mental Differences Spectrum. I have found her posts and website links to be very informative, and invite readers who are not familiar with her and her posts to investigate on this matter.


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22 Jan 2008, 4:05 pm

Sora wrote:
2ukenkerl wrote:
As for your teacher's reaction to you? I bet he will be shocked, and say you're WRONG!


His reaction to me? I don't think he will be shocked. He dislikes me very very much from the first moment on.


You mentioned you will soon reveal that you are autistic. Whether he hates you or not, I bet he will be shocked.

As for the others being "obviously disabled", I guess we are left wondering. I don't follow any fashion, etc.... Seeing the kinds of things they expect women to wear, that is a GOOD THING! Do ANY women really wear that stuff?



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22 Jan 2008, 5:36 pm

I've had different experiences with this topic. Where I grew up, it was largely a matter of perceived mental disability. For instance, people would quickly strike up a conversation with a blind person, a person in a wheelchair, any number of other obvious physical disabilities, as long as they appeared mentally normal. As soon as a mental difference was introduced, whether or not there was a physical disability present, the discomfort started. It was almost a spectrum, actually. Physically handicapped/mentally NT was the high end, and could be treated just like everybody else with proper modification. Next was physically AND mentally handicapped, who pretty much were treated like very small children regardless of situation, and often if there was an aid accompanying them only the aid would participate in conversations etc. At the bottom end were the completely invisible disabilities, like autism, where the person looked completely normal but was acting in an unexpected manner.

What I got out of this is that the NTs weren't reacting to the disability, they were reacting to the appearance of the person. They formed certain opinions of how someone should act based on their appearance, and in the case of the invisible disabilities, when this opinion was turned upside down, they lost the ability to adjust and deal with the situation, and then became extremely uncomfortable/rude. I never really understood this; I always just started talking to people, and reacted to them based on what they responded with. It always shocked me when NTs around me would make fun of a person I knew, who I had had many interesting conversations with, assuming they were an idiot because they were 'different'.

I like that Eddie Izzard quote; I think that is exactly what happens. The NT brains just shuts down, and starts receiving a "no previous data... cannot compute..." signal when dealing with something outside of their behavioural paradigms. I don't know if there's a solution to this, other than to continue to try to make people aware of the astonishing range and diversity of mental and physical abilities found in Homo sapiens sapiens.