"We have to hurt you in order to help you."

Post Reply New Topic

When I hear this, the first thing that comes to mind is the Judge Rotenberg Center. Has anyone actually harmed you trying to help you? I may have been after years of people thinking I was a certain kind of Aspie I was not and treating me accordingly, which really harmed my self-esteem and opinion of NTs and people in general... I think this may have brought on philisophical thoughts that lead to enlightenment though, so I dunno...

The last jerk to try to hurt me had the AUDACITY to say that! If he didn't basically have a gang, and I was just a LITTLE more upset, I might have let him know, in a non verbal fashion, what I thought of his claim.

He said that 28 years ago, and I remember his name, appearance, and everything as if it was yesterday. Ironically, his claim was that I was TOO NICE and he wanted to attack me to teach me to attack back! YEAH RIGHT!(sarc)

That statement is translated as: "You are not changing your behavior based on our suggestions. Therefore, we must take stronger measures for you to hear our guidance."

In a twisted way, they are actually thinking they are doing you a favor. Society is always self-adjusting by showing disapproval for behaviors it does not consider "in" at the time. Since we generally do not see these things, society assumes we are either stupid, or purposely trying to misalign.

Most humans are primitives. For a joke, I sometimes walk around, imagining they sniff each other's butts when they say hi. Many of them actually aren't far more advanced than that.

I've heard it. It seems to be the primary mode of treatment by a lot of psychiatric aides. I see them as people who have found a group of helpless people who they can ruthlessly manipulate and ruin.

I wish that more humans were like animals. I find animals far more trustworthy.

No one has said that to me...but someone has done it to me.
My mother, who used to be over-protective of me, used to clean up my mistakes...is now letting me make my own mistakes, have minimal support from her and letting me fall into depression. I guess she just wants me to find what I want to do with my life without having any outside pressures...and quite honestly, it's hard, but working. I've realised so much over the past week that I couldn't have done with someone "holding my hand every step of the way".

HA! I'm gonna try that! The next time someone looks at me like I'm weird, I'll see that person as a stupid, primitive butt-sniffing being. HA! I needed a laugh!

Yeah, for some reason, some people think they can tease or abuse us enough to cause us to magically change our brain structure..? No, it's like you say, they think we are purposely not conforming or if we are stupid, that we can be trained to change by their abuse... I'm convinced now, that most people will never really understand and that it's probably no use in trying to explain anything to them.. I just try to survive in their world as best as I can... that was funny though about their primitive ways.. The worst is when they gang up... I try to avoid cliquey, abusive people now if I can help it.. It is their loss for not understanding...

Like someone else posted, I agree that Animals are more "trustworthy" and are just not as mean as people are to each other.. Animals usually only attack out of self-defense or because they are hungry.. sometimes for territory. For people, it probably has something more to do with hierarchy and territory as well.. People are so over-crowded and stressed, those territorial, competitive urges must present themselves alot more often than in normal situations and usually are directed at the one that they perceive as the weaker one... Since people are more "social" animals, they tend to gang up in warring fashion against the one that they think will be easy to eradicate from their territory.. It's some kindof basic instinct with alot of them.. It's also because of a lack of understanding of something different I think. I wish I could find some peaceful place in nature, away from those people in general any way... I don't even WANT to be in their territory half of the time..

Last edited by MusicMaker1 on 05 Feb 2008, 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yes. I was told that I needed to 'learn a lesson' and that lesson messed me up badly, probably because at the time everyone was seeing my behavior as part of a mood disorder.
I was on meds, including anti-psychotics which intensified my general tendency towards apathy and made me really tired. I was in a boarding school, and unable to get out of bed. I was physically carried down a long hallway, up a flight of stairs, and locked in a room that had little ants eating cookie crumbs, and a band-aid cross with blood on it on the window.
The whole time I begged and pleaded that they not touch me, I would do ANYTHING they asked if they just let me go, but I was informed that a lesson was in order.

This (among other similar situations) set me back years in terms of being able to tolerate people touching me. That, and trusting 'official' people and people who become somewhat physically imposing when they are mad. I can still cower, or cry, or go completely irrational because I'm afraid for my physical safety.

I do think the idea of tough love can work (it did in later settings, far away from that horrible place), but it only works if everyone understands, 100%, what the problem is and the best way to handle it.

I work in a hospital, and a lot of what modern medicine does is painful but helpful, especially in emergency situations. Examples: drawing blood for lab tests to find out what is wrong with the person, putting in an IV to give the person medication, putting in a chest tube to keep lungs from collapsing, cardioverting someone with dysrhythmia, etc.

SojournerTruth, I think what Ana was talking about was more along the lines of someone thinking that by being tough on an Aspie, it would "break them" of their "habits"... instead of realizing that it is a neurological difference that can't be corrected... Like when some NT's think that by hurting us (being tough on us), it will help us conform and be like other NTs...

I've been treated that way... made fun of, harassed, threatened to be fired, actually fired numerous times, teachers making fun of me, publicly humiliated, seduced just in order to be used, set up to get arrested... Many of these people have laughingly said to me after the experience "DON'T YOU GET IT!!??!" Like, apparently, all the abuse or being used for a year was supposed to teach me a lesson? Maybe teach me to not speak so loudly? (maybe it would cure my voice prosody problems, huh?) Maybe teach me to be "more yourself" instead of pretending to be normal? Maybe teach me to not do something that I'm not even aware of!!?! ! They just thought I was a fake person, or an arrogant person, or someone basically who needed to be taught a lesson.... it hurts... every time... It has ruined my career and my good record and any type of "good reputation" that I could have ever had because so many people have misunderstood me.. I wonder if people would treat me better if I just wore a t-shirt that said "Autistic... please be kind"... or
"Different Wave Length... please be kind"..
"Socially Challenged -- have mercy"
any suggestions?
"Socially Challenged -- I do my best "
I'm different - try to understand
"OK, so I'm not socially gifted....."
"I'm not crazy, I'm just different"
Artists are different - so are geniuses?
Have you ever seen a T-shirt that says something like that??
I just found one on ebay.. it says "I have autism, what's your excuse?"
I couldn't find anything that says Aspie or Asperger's though... or learning disabled...

Of course, then, every rotten person might see me as an easy target.. I don't know what the answer is any more.. I can't be "normal" no matter how much I try-- I can fool them for a while though, but -- I am what I am... If they find out I wasn't real or think I'm not being real, then they resent it. I'm not even trying to pretend anymore though... I DO try to not be rude though...

Last edited by MusicMaker1 on 05 Feb 2008, 1:54 pm, edited 5 times in total.

Are you religious, do you believe in an afterlife? If so, you would be better off dead, no?

It makes me sick to think about what happens in that hellhole and anyone supporting it is the lowest kind of life-form imaginable.

I think she's taking a literal tack on regular-hospital stuff - like getting surgery or IVs or something. I don't get the impression she means deliberate ignorance of AS or similar.
Though I have some real fun stories about CHOP (for those in PA) concerning an autistic (moderate to low functioning, -not- AS).

I hate that type of attitude, when it applies to helping people with AS, or Autism. That's a very out molded attitude, that dates back to the 1930s and earlier. The other thing is, what if the person doesn't want "help", than what is the maytor going to do?

"his claim was that I was TOO NICE and he wanted to attack me to teach me to attack back!" The exact same thing happened to me. This one black kid punched me almost everyday to teach me to stand up for myself. I'm glad he did. He really did want to help me. I used to be too passive and I needed him to encourage me to fight back. It's important to stand up for yourself and 2ukenkerl I think the person you mentioned really was trying to help you too. I think alot of us misunderstand other people and their intentions.

Thats the first time I heard of bullies trying to excuse their behaviour by suggesting they are helping people by punching them.

Or perhaps my perceptions were wrong. I was under the impression that they were doing it because they enjoyed the power and wanted an outlet for their emotional problems. But it seems now that bullies have a social conscience and are performing a community service. Perhaps they should be awarded with medals.

(sarcasm).

The logic in that idea is bizarre.

abusive people, holier than thou people and hipocrites usually have the attitude of "We have to hurt you in order to help you."
three words should be used often here: just ignore them

My mistress, I'll explain the logic behind it.

Some people punch people to take advantage of them because they like hurting people weaker than them. These people are bullies.

Some people, like the person I mentioned, felt bad that people were mistreating me and noticed I didn't stand up for myself. He stood up for me and then punched me after that when he saw me and told me he wouldn't stop until I punched him back. I eventually punched him back and after that we boxed for fun. He became my best friend until I had to move a year later.

Some people around me probably thought he was bullying me and if I believed that, I would have felt worse and missed out on having a good friend. We need to be careful how we judge others, think carefully, and ask others for help to make sure we don't come to the wrong conclusion. I got it right that time, but I've misunderstood others intentions so many times and felt hurt when people were really trying to help me. I think most of the anti-NT posts here are the result of aspies misunderstanding others.