How TEACCH defines the spectrum

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I went to TEACCH today for a meeting on where I am on the spectrum and I was curious to see how they define it. They drew a line on a paper and just put "autism" on the far left, "Asperger's" in the middle, and "PDD-NOS" on the right. They said most people on the spectrum, including me, have PDD-NOS. This goes against what I have heard a lot on the internet, however I know a lot of the internet may not be reliable. I am also wondering if perhaps in other countries they don't diagnose PDD-NOS, but only call it Asperger's. So I'm wondering, if most people on the spectrum are PDD-NOS, why don't we ever hear about it? Why aren't there any sites for PDD-NOS like there are for Asperger's? Is it because the name is basically undescriptive and no one knows what the heck it is?

I mentioned to them about just calling it LFA and HFA and they mentioned in the future it may go that way. For the meantime if anyone asks I'm just going to say I'm HFA rather than try to explain what PPD-NOS is.

Well PDD-NOS is most diagnosed ASD IIRC.

PDD-NOS means that the person exibits symptoms of a PDD but for some reason ( lack of severity, age of onset, lack of clearity) the psy doesn't feel comfortable with a concrete PDD diagnoses. Basicaly its saying "He/She seems autistic, but were not quite sure where on the spectum they are. That being said a large majority of PDD-NOS are pretty high functioning. Of the people i've met with PDD-NOS, most didnt have the self help issues that are associated with autism. The social aspect, the sensory aspect, and the behavioral aspects are all still there and usually have a signifigant inpact on the person.

I read that PDD-NOS is the most common diagnosis, then autism, and then Asperger's. Some countries don't bother with PDD-NOS, and lump everyone in AS; those that use Gillberg's AS criteria for example. Different diagnostic criteria and institutions lead to this.

This is PDD-NOS as of the DSM-IV-TR:

And this from a doctor:

When a professional uses the ICD-10 for a diagnosis, there are only 'classical/infantile autism', 'Asperger's Syndrome' and 'atypical autism' available. Atypical autism is rarely ever given out. It's not used the same as PDD-NOS. At least not used as often... and few professionals bother to consider it.

Most go by the idea that you're either Asperger's or classical. Doesn't work for me for one. I know it doesn't work for others, adults and kids either.

About PDD-NOS...
I imagine that there are few information on PDD-NOS because it is an umbrella term.

The only thing that is (hopefully?) safe to say about PDD-NOS.

1. It's an umbrella term.

2. It usually does not describe severity or a place in the spectrum.

3. A person with PDD-NOS has a pervasive development disorder as characterised by the infamous 'triad of impairments'. But (at that moment of diagnosing) they do not any specific diagnosis and are thus 'not other specified'.

Quite unspecific. Information on other specific spectrum disorders are usually considered appropriate for PDD-NOS.


Edit: Seems as if I was too late. Just looked for our cat and others already posted in-between.

Well, this is what i was thinking, that perhaps in Europe and Australia PDD-NOS seems to have a different definition or is never used, because of the conflicting reports I see on the internet. According to TEACCH, which is basically the authority on autism spectrum disorders in the US, PDD-NOS is on the spectrum and is not an umbrella term. How it was described to me was as being less rigid in routines, less obsessive about interests, and more functioning in everyday tasks. So basically, High Functioning Autism, except they don't call it that. I would really appreciate universal and easy-to-understand terms for the spectrum, however until that happens, it's helpful to educate each other about what these terms mean in different countries.

Perhaps more people meet "atypical Asperger's" there (TEACCH's data that is).

Lol that is pretty laughable because I'm going to do a talk for NAS befriender training. Mostly it will about me experiences living with ASD, but I want to do a bit a the end about how I think an ignorant person may view the spectrum (and everyone else) and then after how I view it. Funny enough my ignorant's view is pretty much how they drew it. Except I would have a broken line between Autism and Asperger's. Also I will be using some provocative words like 'ret*d' and 'moron' to drive the point home. I will warn them in advance of course.

PDD-NOS is pretty much joke term but it is sort of understandable it was coined as we still know very like about ASD. However what is especially dumb about their drawing is PDD-NOS neither has a position nor severity associated to it. It that is the whole point of that 'diagnosis'. Many diagnosticians are using it because they don't know how to classify some young children because their development can not be assessed until their are older. As ASD can share a lot of trait

I much more in favor of calling everyone ASD. That is what the center that diagnosed me does. There is no need for these arbitrary historical labels like Asperger's, NVD, Kanner's, etc.

My way of viewing the spectrum and everyone is to realize it is not a one dimensional line at all. It is very much multidimensional. Even those that are focus on the so called 'triad of impairments' are being short sighted. That is why I a thought of Autistic Spectrum Components.

It more meant as a tool for analysis, to avoid the need for more labels, but in doing so also encourage more joined up thinking. It is the lack of joined up thinking that has caused complete confusion with these labels.

The only problem I have with the blanket term "ASD" is that it doesn't come with a severity attached; a scale of adaptive functioning would need to be attached to make it fair for everyone (a simple number scale from 1 to 10 in the various areas of functioning will do, and this will allow one to get specific help in the areas they need).

Neither does the current systems.

The 'moron' Goddard who came up with the IQ of 70 MR cut off, and coincidently coined the term moron to honour it, did so in 1910..time to move on. It is meaningless and arbitrary. There is no significance in 70 whatsoever.

The whole concept of 'function' needs to be reviewed. You could have no arms or legs but have high IQ. Therefore are you more functioning than someone with average IQ?

I think you make a better assessment of 'function' using something like ASC tests and psychometric tests as a basis. It definitely does need to be a scale as you said. How this scale is calculated and weighted is debatable. it is always going to be as estimate. But lets face it it would be a hell of a lot better than what we have now. Also this score would be a *snapshot*. It only means you scored x at that point in time. That is why it is important to have it separate from the label of ASD

am like the idea of it all being ASD also,it would help with each Autistic being judged on their own difficulties/strengths rather than a label,that might get more help to adult autistics [who need it] who otherwise would be refused help because they're PDDNOS,HFA or Aspie.

Well actually that's the thing, in the US, PDD-NOS does have a position and severity associated with it. They were saying that people with PDD-NOS would be able to go to a normal school, even go to college, maybe hold a job, have a relationship with others or get married someday. Basically what people are commonly calling Asperger's here. What they described as Asperger's was substantially more severe, someone with a normal or above normal IQ but couldn't complete daily tasks like clothing themselves or making themselves a sandwich. That's why they said true Asperger's was so much rarer than both PDD-NOS and autism.

You pros on both sides of the pond should really get together and agree on terms, otherwise in this age of the internet things will just get more and more confusing.

(Or we can just go for HFA like I've suggested over and over again )

Since there are non-verbal, severely impaired children with 'PDD-NOS' in the US too... I think it depends also on which diagnostician one sees?

So, it's an Edit: [understanding] (not understatement) that some professionals and some (US) groups made themselves for whatever reason I guess. If TEACCH has defined PDD-NOS as such and it is an authority on autism, professionals will adjust to this unofficial way of understanding the DSM-IV-TR PDD-NOS diagnosis.

I think. Sounds logical to me.

Last edited by Sora on 10 Apr 2008, 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

They are wrong. Children in the US that are often diagnosed with PDD-NOS, then later get diagnosed with Asperger’s or Autistic, or schizophrenic and so on.

It is a place holder diagnosis. NOS means Not Otherwise Specified. PDD stands for Pervasive Developmental Disorder, which is includes various disorders like ASDs, Rett syndrome, Childhood disintegrative disorder…

I think it more a case of then stating their view, which is fine but I don't think it a very sensible one.

Diagnosis exists purely to be useful. Labels aren't physical entities in themselves, they describe stuff. They can't be too specific that it is exclusive for no reason. What purpose does it serve to have this blip they call Asperger's that is uncannily similar to an ever so slightly larger group that others call Asperger's? This is why I don't think there is much point in these arbitrary, historical labels like Asperger's. Normally I don't really mind being called it, but in these situations assimilation is the best policy against a rather limited mindset. No one really fully agrees on what it means, but at the end of the day what is more important is what someone is, not if they fit an arbitrary checklist. You could make countless obscure groups in ASD if you just cherry pick traits you just happen to be interested in. We won't learn things if we don't observe and record traits that may or may not be relevant. That is part of the scientific process. Just parroting what somebody 'discovered' in the 1940s is silly.

That why Asperger's can be master criminals on the one hand (as if), and on the other so debilitated that can't put on their clothing. The only thing I can say to that is: 'Did you get your thesis in on time?'

As previously discussed, determining how much trouble somebody has in life and the cause is incredibly difficult. In many respects I have always been somewhat delayed at achieving things and have various cognitive problems, but on the surface I seem a fairly normal, competent and coherent person.

Are you joking?

Eh, no? Should I be?

While writing this I was eating a sandwich I had just made.

PDD-NOS is not milder then Asperger's. No, PDD-NOS lies between AS and autism. PDD-NOS is when a child does not quite meet criteria for autism.

A person who does not quite meet criteria for Asperger's is a Nerd/Geek. Some diagnosticians seem to forget this.

When children with Autism, PDD-NOS and Asperger's are compared - children with Asperger's are mildest of the three and as Uta Frith says, Asperger's shades seamlessly into eccentric normality.

See: Walker, Darlene R M.SC.; Thompson, Ann M.SC.; Zwaigenbaum, Lonnie M.D.; Goldberg, Jeremy M.D.; Bryson, Susan E PH.D.; Mahoney, William J M.D.; Strawbridge, Christina P B.A.; Szatmari, Peter M.D.February 2004. Specifying PDD-NOS: A Comparison of PDD-NOS, Asperger Syndrome, and Autism. Journal of the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry. 43(2):172-180, http://www.jaacap.com/pt/re/jaacap/abst ... -00012.htm