Autistics should never hurt each other.

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We have all been hurt enough.

If you look at Autistics, it's pretty easy to see that Autistics do not have the tendency to initiate hurt or harm or damage against anyone, or anything; not against Autistics, nor humans, nor animals - nor all the creatures on this planet, nor flora, nor others' personal belongings, nor even rocks.

If you look, it's pretty easy to see that Autistics are simply not malicious at all.
Yes, there is a lot of bitterness, and there can be a lot of anger, and those feelings can become pretty intense. Especially as Autistics get older, and especially - at this time in history - among many older Autistics who went through life without there ever being such a thing as "Autistic" ... or "Aspergers Synrome".
Like me, for example, being 45yo now, and like others on this forum who are yet my elders, who's posts I have read.

Let us please understand how really most difficult life has been for some, how very much completely alone throughout life, how very relentlessly, cruelly (yes, real, actual cruelty), and incredibly hurt and damaged many of us have been. That hurt and harm and damage, that cruelty and sadism and brutality is - I can assure you - very, very real for each of us who express such. It is not 'fabricated'. It is not to be argued with or hurt further. It is to be acknowledged ... because those individuals who have suffered that much, that alone, could - and I can *somehow* understand this so very well - really, really could - use a real acknowledgement of what they really did suffer - and may still be suffering.

Likewise, for those who are elder; it is GOOD ... very, very good, that perhaps younger Autistics may not have to suffer to the extent we did ... or you did. We who might be a bit older are not here to hurt or 'scold' younger Autistics because they didn't have it as bad as us ... nor to say they have it easy, because they don't; and do you really actually want them to suffer like you did? Or do we 'elders' just want the truth to be known?. The fact is that some of us have led a life in our own 'private Idaho' of an impossible hell, utterly alone, having been truly severly abused and betrayed and every other horror everywhere we turn, relentlessly. I have been so. Nobody wants to hear the horror-story of my life; it's traumatic and disgusting and unsuitable for a TV series, or a movie, or a book.

This is simply to be rightfully understood and acknowledged. That's all I want; to be believed for once, and to not be completely alone and on my own, but to finally have due and true understanding. It is solemn, it is sacred, it is reverent. I find it to be so. I offer this reverence to my elders; I may not really want to know the details. It gets to be all way too much. Impossibly too much.

But the elders of us need that acknowledgement - and is there any reason to not offer that true acknowledgement? That real and reverent acknowledgement is a cure for all that impossible suffering and horror. The details do not necessarily matter; just the understanding that you probably don't want to hear and feel the horror of those details. It is really, truly due time, in this new "Great Autistic Enlightenment" that those who lived 'pre-Enlightenment' have that simple and obvious recognition and acknowledgement.

It is also time for those who lived 'pre-Enlightenment' to offer that same compassion and understanding to the younger generation(s); we should only be so thankful we can now help ensure that what we suffered, they do not ever have to. We possess some very real understandings that may just be needed. Our voice is a very true voice, and reflects the real truth.

I am beyond grateful that about 7-to-10 months ago, I happened to be corresponding with someone AS, who identified me as AS. When I researched it on the Internet, I read all about my own life - for the first time - and at first I felt overwhelmingly doomed; but as I thought more and felt more and learned more and understood more, that feeling of doom dissipated, and I simply *understood* what I have always wanted to understand my entire life. Finally, after 40 years of single-minded, intense work, this one piece of information - and all that it meant - made all the pieces of the puzzle fit together and make complete sense.

This is amazing. I am so thankful to have this piece of information that it is really beyond my words to express.

I am thankful that the suffering I sustained can be stopped for those who are younger. Do we want to see that suffering? Is there anything to proven or gained? Obviously not. The only thing I see at issue is the need for a real recognition of what is really true, and just how bad it can be.

Again, I am not accusing anyone of anything terrible, and I don't think anything is gained from guilt ... except a useless feeing of guilt - which I can't see any Autistic benefiting from. But I do not that 'little' hurts aren't always so little. But then I'm sure everyone is familiar with that. Certainly, I have seen great care in discussions here to clarify things which may have been taken personally by others, but not intended to be so at all.
But, there are little hurts that do happen.
I've been hurt here and there a bit, in the little time I've been here. Perhaps I've inadvertently caused a little hurt. No, we shouldn't be walking on eggshells.
Some of those hurts were caused by a division in age, and what I take very seriously, and what younger people might not have had and witnessed piled on themselves and everyone else for 40 years. After 40 years of a virulent brutality, you tend to feel strongly about it and take it very seriously.
I do not ever want to be hurt again by misunderstanding, and I have seen - not just for myself, for I became aware of it in other people's posts first - a division based on age.

So that we do not hurt each other, it is important that these divisions and potentials for division be simply felt, so they can be expressed. For this reason - and in this historic time period - it is important that the younger generation have the compassion and empathy and willingness to understand what happens after a lifetime of pre-Autism recognition. And I see that just as important, those who are of an older generation take the greater care and patience they are capable of, that those younger can understand just what is at stake, and why there are such strong and serious feelings and thoughts about many things - and that ... No! ... no-one wants to see such suffering ever again.

So, in this one example, I want to show how there is no need and there is no goodness from any division among ourselves, and that these divisions can be easily felt and consciously discussed. The elders really do deserve acknowledgement, and the newer generations really do deserve every effort on all our part from our very real compassion and empathy that they do not ever, ever have to suffer what nightmares we know full well which can be suffered.

We work together, and we cure and heal ourselves of the hurt and harm and damage and pain.
We do not need these 'divisions' and nobody will ever benefit from such divisions.
We never, ever need to hurt each other; we've all had enough already.
We can be very clear and give ourselves what we really need and want.
We can speak these things among ourselves and to ourselves.

Whether an Autistic is younger or older, higher or lesser functioning, self-Dx'd or "officially" so .... we STILL do not ever have to hurt any one of us. Whether someone has 3 posts or 3,000 posts on this site or any other site (and I can find every reason to disable the "status symbol" of how many posts Autistics have, and not one reason to have such in place, because that is not at all what we are about, and only serves to detract from the most meaningful things, and more posts means ... exactly what, exactly?) is not the important matter. We do not have to 'compete' in such a way; we are Autistic and do not require that.
The 'status symbol' is simply that an individual is Autistic ... and that is enough for us to accept them and not hurt or harm them in any way. Not one of us needs more pain. We could all use more healing and curing; and we are the ones who can do that for each other. We understand.

If someone who is Autistic does not feel welcome among Autistics, something is very wrong; where else are they going to feel and be welcome? Does a community of Autism kick Autistics out, or reject them as somehow 'wrong' or 'bad' or 'unacceptable' or ... for any reason ... unwelcome???
That's just way too painful to do - and how and why would that be considered ok in any way?
I'm not implicating that terrible things happen here; I am taking some slight adversarial tendencies in the A community and looking at their essence.

Autistics understand Autistics, and it is our own full understanding and full acceptance by which we can begin to reverse the process of suffering; for suffering is our mutual enemy. Humans can never understand nor accept us like we can. Humans cannot reverse the cycle of pain, of lonliness, of not belong ...etc.; that is entirely up to us to do for ourselves.

I need much; yet, as always, I have even more to give. I am willing to give what I have, and it is my nature to do so. It has always been my nature to do that.

This is a community of us, for us.

The last thing any of us need is to be hurt more.

So, I'm new to the 'community' ... but I am not at all new to what it is to be AS. I am utmost familiar with every apect of that. I am utmost familiar knowing what it's like to be me and to have had to live my life. That I can simply now state that I am AS, and that's relatively new for me, doesn't mean anything other than that; and I am 100% certain of that.

There are many different thoughts and positions and subscriptions and viewpoints.

These are not reason for us to hurt or damage each other, ever.

If you look at Autism, and you see it clearly, I can only ask; "What is there to hurt?"
What has any one of us done that we deserve to be hurt by each other?

I know, really know, that I don't need any more hurt or pain. I can assure you that I have suffered enough already, and that I really don't need to 'learn any lessons' anymore.
I really don't need anyone to "Teach me a lesson!" or to "Show me who's right!" ... ever, ever again.
I've had to suffer that my entire life.
There's a really fantastic and self-circular archetypical lesson that human fathers teach their sons; how to take the pain of this world and survive and be a man. The pain humans make for each other to live in. The world humans make for themselves to live in.

We learn by our mistakes. But none of us need more punishment so we can learn how to take more punishment.

None of us need to be hurt so we can learn how to take more hurt.

Autistics are simply not malicious or hurtful by nature. That part of us which is angry and hurt and can become hurtful is ONLY because of the hurt we have sustained by humans. We do not need to continue that viscious circle and cycle of harm. We do not need to purge that hurt and anger on each other; not one of us deserves that.

If you think you deserve more hurt and pain, and need to be the recipient of more harm and anger, you can post your requirements up here.

Otherwise, it's a safe bet to just know that it's a good time (about time) that we do what only we can do, which is to stop all the hurt and pain and suffering - all of it. First among us, and then from humans. But until we each want to take responsibility for stopping divisions among ourselves and being hurtful toward ourselves, and until we can offer our understanding and healing to each other, we will only continue be continuously hurt and damaged and alone; because humans do not understand us regardless of their intentions, and the only way we will ever feel good and have a sense of true belonging is if we each want the responsibility for caring and accepting and giving. It is we who can take care of ourselves best, and we who can heal each other, and we who can accept each other, and we who can belong among each other, and we who can truly appreciate what we each have to offer; and from what I have seen, there's an incredible amount to be amazed at.

This is a very real new era. There is no longer any need for that which is called "Autistic" to suffer, or to not belong. We all belong, by the simple fact that we are all Autistic. It is historical (mind-blowing), and free from the hurt and pain and isolation, able to heal and accept, the very amazing and beautiful flower of sentience which is Autistic can grow and flourish to always follow the Sun.

Last edited by archetype on 17 Apr 2008, 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i have no idea what you wrote since the second paragraph, I don't understand the title or poll.

Now, yes. I have known more saddness, pain, and loneliness as of this date then some will through out the majority of there lives. A big part of this is I don't/can't forget. Every injustice, every lie, every forgotten promise I am aware of always. There was a rough part in my life where I just erased everything for most of 9th grade. I remember nothing, through that time period.

i dont have the tendency to hurt anyone or anything, the only problem is that i hurt myself cos of my depression...

1) Aspies/Auties ARE human.

2) As human beings we are not exempt from the flaws of being human. To me that exemption would imply superiority. I do not believe in "Aspie Uber Alles".

3) I am 3 years older than you archetype (good username) and I have no desire to be revered by the younger people.

My apologies DateRF; but you summed it up quite sufficiently in what you wrote about your own life.

The title is a statement which is serious and literal.
The poll is humorous - or supposed to be.

Basically, I'm saying that Autistics should not be hurtful, ever, to other Autistics because we are not hurtful and don't deserve to be hurt. I'm also saying that Autistics are the only people who can understand and help cure the pain which we have all suffered. Humans don't understand us, and even when they intend well, they, being different from us, end up causing more hurt and damage to us in the end. Humans don't understand how they hurt us, though.


I understand completely.

Humans are people in clown outfits ... who really think they're actually the clown they pretend to be. The clown outfit is their "personality".
Autistics are people who are just people, and have no clown outfit ... or "personality".

Clowns have a smile painted on their face, and they really believe they are smiling ... and all the clowns think all the other clowns are smiling, too.
Autistics don't have a smile painted on their face.
Autistics don't wear clown outfits.

The reason humans pretend to be smiling clowns is so they can pretend that they are not hurt and suffering.
Autistics don't know how to pretend to be clowns, nor can they pretend that they are not hurt and suffering.

Maybe you had human friends as a child. I did. But then they started growing older and making personalities for themselves. That's when I became very confused and alone, and that's when the kids started becoming very hurtful.

I never made a personality for myself, and I'm still exactly the same as I was when I was in 2nd grade; I just have more experience and knowledge, and my body is an adult's now ... but I'm still innocent like I was when I was a child.

Autistics never make personalities for themselves, and then pretend they are the personalities they made. This is what humans call a "learning disorder".

Autistics are very most special people.
All Autistics are hurt and suffer terribly through life.
Autistics feel all the pain in life which humans will not feel and make sure they cannot feel.

My post was about how Autistics can help each other not suffer anymore or be alone anymore, and probably even heal all the pain we have inside ourselves.

If you aren't certain about what I mean, you can email me and tell me what you didn't quite understand, and I'll try better to explain what I mean ... or maybe I'll get my IM working again and you can ask what I mean while I'm saying it, so I can explain right there.

No, humans don't actually wear clown outfits ... but the description is pretty similar to what humans make for their personalities.


Yes, I remember every injustice, every lie, and every 'forgotten' promise, too, and I am always aware of these pains. I have done a lot of work on myself - because I had to - so that all these things wouldn't hurt so much anymore. But I remember all and every one of them. I don't dwell upon them, because then they wll just hurt more if I think about them and remember them and live through them again, and I'll just feel all the pain and a lot of anger again.

I can understand erasing part of your life. I deliberately erased parts of my life and placed other memories there instead., which you can do, although it can be dangerous. I don't know what I erased, I just remember doing it. I know I put in a small and beautiful and secluded ocean bay I stayed at for a week in Maui with my gf in a VW bus
I used to wak up and just walk naked into the water and play in the waves all morning until noon, and then we'd get some coffee and breakfast.

There are also a few periods in my life that I didn't 'erase', but put into my subconscious. I've just recently been able to remember 5th grade. I didn't know before this past week where I was or what happen or who my teacher was or anything for all of 5th grade. I just remembered now, as I was typing.

But there's other area's I only remember snippets from, and I'm not sure when was when, or what school I was in.

all of school was a never-ending nightmare, and there's many periods I just put into my subconscious. My suconscious came uncorked last summer, though, so now I have access to everything ... but I don't actually need to remember, because it's all just more unbearable pain. There's no point in remembering.

Autistic psychology is different than human psychology. Autistics seem to place things into their subconscious more deliberately. I don't know for certain all the differences, so I don't want to make any stupid statements about it. But based on what I've seen of myself and other Autistics, and based on the difference between Autistic and human, I don't find or feel any need to remember much more of my past. I would be better off if I had complete amnesia. There's not much worth remembering.

But Autistics don't have the hurtful subconsious motivations that humans have, so while humans are dangerous because of their subconscious, Autistics are not.
That's why I don't think Autistics need to necessarily uncover their subconscious (but I did say "I don't think", which is not somethng I know, but something I ... think, like a theory, which is nothing more than a glorified opinion); we can pretty much guess what's there, and it's just not pretty and never is.

I'm an optimistic, I guess. Although I've been all inundated and flooded with memories and subconscious feelings for the last year, I still look forward to the future, and meeting my pretty simple needs, and being happy, and not feeling hurt or suffering all the time. I think I'm pretty much ready to just step out of what used to be and step into what can be.

Oh, well, so much for my attempt at a short clarification... I need someone to monitor my writing and place a 200-character cap on any single thought. Can someone do that for me?

Humans shouldn't hurt each other in general, but they do. It's part of life; should (and shouldn't) is a useless word.

well, you've articulated some thoughts that many of us have, but as with any spectrum, individual mileage may vary...

I actually remember every screwup I've done, back to when I was 3. Still get embarrassed a little, even though I'm the only one who remembers them...

Most of us don't want to hurt anyone. Like the good men, evil triumphs when we do nothing. But sometimes we hurt people without meaning to.

Hi KatieRose,

No, I can see or imagine Autistics being hurtful. As I've read, depression and anxiety are effects of Autism and the social isolation that tends to come with it. I used to be very depressed and was institutionalized for a year when I was 17 and diagnosed with clinical depression and anxiety disorder. I don't have those anymore, because they were just an effect casued by Autism and the feelings that go along with being alone and a sense that you don't even belong on this planet.

Those feelings can sometimes come about from how you view yourself. I view myself much differently now, so I don't have the same feelings about myself, and I no longer suffer from clinical depression (although I'm very lonely and am depressed because of my isolation - plus I live way out in the country and it's hard to meet people) or anxiety disorder. I still am taking anti-depressants, though, and anti-anxiety medication, because I think it's beneficial for me to, but I don't view myself as or feel myself to be naturally depressed, and I don't have much anxiety except when it comes time to be organized and pay my bills. I get over-energized when I write (can you tell) and overwhelmed at things like having to move, so I think it's good for me to stay calm. Plus I really like being relaxed.

But maybe that's the same for you, and you might grow out of your depression like I did. When I discovered I has AS last year, and I accepted that, I stopped being depressed and being anxious, and I no longer had anxiety attacks. I no longer viewed myself as 'wrong' or broken or unbelonging, but very specially 'different' and gifted and with a lot to offer.

That made all the difference in the world for me. But it did take a long time and a lot of work for me to be ready for that.

I'm sorry you hurt yourself, and I hope you can feel better so you don't need to hurt yourself anymore. I wish I could say something or do something, but I don't know what to do or say.

Hi Velodog,

Yes, I know this is a highly-charged topic.


Please, I don't want to bring that discussion into this thread.

I'm going to post a thread about that in the "Autism Politics ..." forum, since I think there's a reason for the different forums. This really isn't about that. Obviously, those views do come through in my OP by the very use of the term "Autistic" and "human".

But there's a lot going on here, and many threads are important, and I find it appropriate to keep something which has more intellectual aspects in a more intellectual-based forum.

I don't want to bring any anger into this thread, because I really find it important that it stay wholesome; and whether we may disagree on something doesn't effect the way I view Autism or Autistics as very most special and beautiful, and that I do really feel very strongly that we don't need to hurt each other at all.


Hi, my revered elder

I know my post is long, but if you look at the entirety of what I'm saying and tone in relation to a sacredness, a solemness, and a reverence, I'm not stating that you, yourself, should be revered. I am speaking of the suffering which is very real and true. I actually wouldn't suppose you, yourself, would necessarily desire to be revered. that would be pretty egotistical, and Autistics appear to have less ego-needs (than humans .....shhhhhh)
I don't know that I'd want to be 'revered'. I'm not actually sure what that is or means, to be honest. I don't know that 'revered' sounds too appropriate for me, either. Perhaps 'honored' I might accept, if I deserved it. I'll take being liked, appreciated, respected, and loved and such.
But the 'reverence' which I mentioned was to me and felt to me as I wrote it to be something much greater than myself or any one person.

I do, again, write at length - partially so that I won't be misinterpreted. Sometimes the length works against that. I have read other of your posts, though. One thing you might want to take into account if I post something is that I usually don't make mistakes. When I wrote the word "reverence', I understood that word could be easily misconstrued. But I found it to be an appropriate term for the feeling I felt, and still do. I did debate over using that word.

I would ask for the benefit of the doubt, that I do mean and intend well, that I am thoughtful and careful (mostly), and that whatever serious things I write come from everything I am and have, and there's a lot of depth where I write from. It can be very difficult interpreting my own thoughts and feelings and placing them into a linear language which is full of ambiguity and also very subjectively interpretable, such as English. So I just ask if you might take these things into account, and forward me a benefit of contextual synchronization and contentual forgiveness that English isn't mathematically precise, and that sometimes poetry is more accurate than technical handbook writing.

Thanks for the username compliment, and there's a story behind it which I'll sum up (for real)

Edward Albee decreed that I was a "martyred-saint archetype." I've been using that username ever since The amazing part is that that's utterly brilliant. And very close. After some thought, and my disagreement that there could even be a martyred-saint archetype, I came back with the fact that I'm actually a white-knight archetype. One must act, one may not act. For me it is painful not to act. For Ghandi, it would be painful for him to act. He is disallowed to act; I am disallowed to not act. Other than this aspect of action/non-action, the martred-saint archetype and the white-knight archetype are identical.

I agree with you. Society hurts us, enough. We shouldn't be hurting each other. I can't begin to tell you the number of times that I've almost left WP, because I didn't feel welcome. We are each unique, in our own special ways, and we must learn to embrace that. We must accept one another and make each other feel welcome. We must be on the free range, to talk about the things that matter to us. I believe that WP was created, for that very reason. We must listen to each other, and help each other out. We must be sensitive to one another's dilemmas. WP is a community, not a battleground.

That's funny.

In terms of your intent Archetype, I won't assume that you have bad intentions. I still take exception to your use of Humans & Aspies/Auties, but I have a feeling that you will continue to post as you see fit. Strange how the world doesn't change according to my whims. I won't bring anger into this thread. I do get your point that our generation and others before it may have dealt with hassles from being undiagnosed for a long time that, hopefully, will be mitigated somewhat for those younger people who are diagnosed earlier than us. Anyway I have stated my disagreement with what I thought was Aspie Superiority and is apparently not. I still think Auties can be capable of every bad thing that other people can do. Talk to you later.

Yes, I could have used the phrase "don't need to" instead of the word "shouldn't". That would have been far more accurate.

Again, discussion goes nowhere fast if people aren't willing to try to synch with the intention and meaning other people actually intend and mean. If we are all constantly picking apart every word each other uses, we'll always end up with a fine mess.
... and lots and lots of convoluted digression and tangentialized self-absorbtion, just like this.

Aspies are very good at this.

Thank-you, velodog;

Well, I don't want to go into certain subject matter here, but your first impression was correct. That subject matter will go in a different forum, and certainly in a different post.

I'd like to hear more about your thoughts on this, if you would. I would consider that most intersting and important. Not here, because it's not the right thread. You can use it to argue against my statement pro Autistic superiority when I post that in the "Autism Politics..." forum. Ummm, maybe tomorow, it's-a late, and I need to get under my electric blanket, or my toes do.

'nite

Dying inside only hurts once, then you never feel anything again.

Some of us have been hurt enough to not want to hurt; Some of us have been hurt enough to want to hurt back. It is sad...

Nobody should ever hurt anyone. Nuff said.