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U.S. Army on suicide prevention.

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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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02 Oct 2011, 5:18 pm

Ask your Buddy
Have the courage to ask the question, but stay calm
Ask the question directly, e.g. Are you thinking of killing yourself?

Care for your Buddy
Remove any means that could be used for self-injury
Calmly control the situation; do not use force

Escort your Buddy
Never leave your buddy alone
Escort to the chain of command, a Chaplain, a behavioral health professional, or a primary care provider

http://www.hooah4health.com/mind/suicid ... ention.htm

========================

I think this is generally very good advice.

Now, what we can do here at WP, well, we do the formalistic approach of---This is serious. Please, you've got to find a counselor, a doctor, a religious leader, a family member, or someone else you can trust and talk with, and talk to them. This is important, and this is a whole lot better than doing nothing.

In addition, if it feels right, we can also share of ourselves, perhaps a time we have struggled. And if done respectfully, this can also be valuable. This might be an example of solidarity.



Todesking
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02 Oct 2011, 5:42 pm

When I was in army basic training in 1988 we had a guy who lightly slit his wrists to try to get out of basic training. They looked like paper cuts and did not need medical attention. The drill sargeants and the army psycholgist yelled at him for a half hour about faking it. I was a squad leader so I had to stay with him for 8 hours until another squad leader could watch him for another 8 hours. They told him they were not going to give him a section 8 dismisal until he does it right. They told him they see several fake suicide attempts with each training platoon. They showed him a book with several real suicides in it and asked him if he was willing to go that far and he said no. The drills sargeants made him show his wrists to everyone at an assembly to embarrass him. They gave him the choice of a dishonerable discharge but he refused. He finished basic training and was embarrassed about faking his wrist cutting. I could not believe how they yelled at him for being a poser.

We had another guy drink a can of brass cleaner and a half bottle bleach to kill himself because he failed the marksman test. Luckily someone heard him throwing up in the utility closet. The drill sargeants got him to the hospital in time to save him. We all signed a get well card for him but he never came back the drill sargeants said he was going to get a section 8 dismissal. The drill sargeants kept telling him all he had to do was pass the marksman test and he would graduate but he would not listen to them. He tried to kill himself before the second test.


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02 Oct 2011, 6:31 pm

I guess it depends entirely on the circumstances really, and you can never know until you face such a situation...But I do know this, telling people to jump is rarely a good idea and neither is telling them about their loved ones and how they will be missed; since you generally will not know a damned thing about their home life.

Best is always to keep calm, get a professional and let them deal with it.

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WorldsEdge
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02 Oct 2011, 7:31 pm

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
I think this is generally very good advice.


I think the first part, about being direct and remaining calm is good advice, but that those other thoughts just aren't applicable once you move beyond a situation like the military. Essentially, I think everything they say is contingent on there only being a very short time between someone admitting suicidal ideation of some sort and that individual being turned over to a higher authority. This can happen in the military, certainly on a base, since there are always people around, likely people with authority, and an individual's coming and going is controlled, certainly at the lower ranks.

But in the civilian world? I mean, how would you realistically remove "any means that might be used for self-injury" from someone's house or apartment? Or if they grab their car keys and walk out the door, how exactly could they be stopped, presuming no use of force is allowed? (As stated above.) Or even if they sit down and don't move for hours, do you follow that "never leave your buddy alone" rule to the letter? I just don't see it, sorry.

I'm afraid my personal beliefs preclude me saying anything else here. Certain topics are no-go areas, and anyone standing contra to the norm knows this is one of them.


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zer0netgain
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04 Oct 2011, 7:43 am

Todesking wrote:
When I was in army basic training in 1988 we had a guy who lightly slit his wrists to try to get out of basic training. They looked like paper cuts and did not need medical attention. The drill sargeants and the army psycholgist yelled at him for a half hour about faking it. I was a squad leader so I had to stay with him for 8 hours until another squad leader could watch him for another 8 hours. They told him they were not going to give him a section 8 dismisal until he does it right. They told him they see several fake suicide attempts with each training platoon. They showed him a book with several real suicides in it and asked him if he was willing to go that far and he said no. The drills sargeants made him show his wrists to everyone at an assembly to embarrass him. They gave him the choice of a dishonerable discharge but he refused. He finished basic training and was embarrassed about faking his wrist cutting. I could not believe how they yelled at him for being a poser.


Ironically, I know someone who was in the Army about the same time. Did the same thing. They just sent him home. The attitude was that if you were going to try and pull a stunt like that, the Army just didn't need you.

I suppose it depends on the attitude of the people running the unit.

I hear 40% of people who join the military don't complete their first term of enlistment due to any number of situations where the military sends them home early. I was surprised to hear that.



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09 Oct 2011, 8:33 pm

Todesking wrote:
When I was in army basic training in 1988 we had a guy who lightly slit his wrists to try to get out of basic training. They looked like paper cuts and did not need medical attention. The drill sargeants and the army psycholgist yelled at him for a half hour about faking it. I was a squad leader so I had to stay with him for 8 hours until another squad leader could watch him for another 8 hours. They told him they were not going to give him a section 8 dismisal until he does it right. They told him they see several fake suicide attempts with each training platoon. They showed him a book with several real suicides in it and asked him if he was willing to go that far and he said no. The drills sargeants made him show his wrists to everyone at an assembly to embarrass him. They gave him the choice of a dishonerable discharge but he refused. He finished basic training and was embarrassed about faking his wrist cutting. I could not believe how they yelled at him for being a poser.

We had another guy drink a can of brass cleaner and a half bottle bleach to kill himself because he failed the marksman test. Luckily someone heard him throwing up in the utility closet. The drill sargeants got him to the hospital in time to save him. We all signed a get well card for him but he never came back the drill sargeants said he was going to get a section 8 dismissal. The drill sargeants kept telling him all he had to do was pass the marksman test and he would graduate but he would not listen to them. He tried to kill himself before the second test.


Wow, reading this makes me really sad. When I was stationed in Korea, I became very depressed. When I intimated that I had self-destructive thoughts, their solution was to "threaten" me with a 24 hour watch (basically humiliate me into saying "nevermind").

As for the attempt, at my ex-husband's BASIC training some guy went to the PX to buy Drano, and drank it. He was on the way to see the counselor. He never made it. Sad.
Lydia