the circle of empathy
25 Apr 2008, 2:23 pm
Have you ever noticed that people seem to understand each other in a way, even when they are strangers on the street? Don't you ever had that feeling that in a way they are on the 'same page'? And at the same time, when you look those two strangers (that don't know each other) interact in a public place, you have a weird feeling inside you, like 'something is missing here'.
I've always thought of that as an strange thing, it's like in a way they know each other, but at the same time they're strangers. And you can sense they have a certain confidence in themselves when approaching the stranger. Like they knew what they're dealing with, like they know what to expect.
I don't know if this rings a bell to anyone. Of course this has to do with theory of mind. But going beyond the theory of mind, i notice something else. I've noticed, that every society, has a common ground for interactions. It's like there's this particular place of the brain that is shaped by the society a person lives, so that everyone has this common ground to understand each other. This would be the part of the brain that people use to interact to a stranger in the street, and that would explain why of that certain confidence when they approach someone. They are in the "common grounds". That part of the brain that every individual in the community or society they live on is pretty much the same. It is more like a view of the world, that everyone shares, and they use to interact and understand each other.
Taking it a bit further, imagine concentric circles, and the outer circles have to deal with the society as a large, while the inner circles deal with close relationships. Each cirlce is kind of an scheme built though the years to know how to approach things in each social situation. An NT brain must handle this circles very well, so that when they meet a stranger in their own country, they use the outer circle, or common knowledge about how to interact with people in general. Of course, if they interact with a close relative, they use one of the inner circles. It's the general to the particular. How is it in an aspie brain? I think there are the same circles, only difference is that they are damaged.
How did i come up with this weird explanation? The thing is that lately I've been tapping into these common grounds. On lucid days --thats when I'm socially more funcionaly-- I've noticed these common grounds, and for a moment, I really understand where the other person is coming from, and thus i can interact with the other person smoothly (this happens with people i've known for years). I don't know if someone else has sensed this 'common ground' in which people 'live in'.
The reason why we are often treated as kids, or played down to, is because other people immediately sense we can't reach this 'common ground' of understanding and interaction. They hear us talk in the middle of a conversation, and think to themselves: "what the hell is he talking about, that has nothing to do with the topic" (just like a kid that doesn't grasp some concepts). And then they use their kid schemes to interact with us.
And the reason NT's don't even notice that this common ground exists, is because it's always been there, they take it for granted. The reason we don't notice it is there, is obvious, we don't sense it, so we don't know it exists.
25 Apr 2008, 3:34 pm
you seem to have thought this through quite well and I have noticed and can agree with you on most terms. I disagree with us having damaged circles. My theory is that we just have different receptors. Sort of like the micro world having differnt receptors for certain proteins which will either accept or reject it.
25 Apr 2008, 4:48 pm
first of all thanks for taking the time to read the long post. about the damaged circles, I say damaged because i focus it from various perspectives, but two specially intrigue me:
1. how come the part of our brain that helps us relate to others doesn't work quite well, but still we crave for relationships? specially romantic ones? To me it's like we are hungry people, but nature didn't gave us the legs to go hunt for the food.
2. if nature wanted us to be intelligent, why not just give us intelligence with 'emotional intelligence'. What's the need to take one away and leave the other there?
I do understand that using the word 'damage' is not nice (i didn't notice it sounded harsh until i reread my post, my apologies i dont mean it that way) but i can't help but think that we do have that 'common grounds' area in our brain, we aspies just can't access it for some reason.
25 Apr 2008, 5:02 pm
Wow, yes, I've always felt like people seem to meet each other and can strike up a conversation. "Common ground" is a perfect way of describing it. It's like people go in meeting people and there's just...something, I don't know how to describe it. I don't have it. Unless it's with people I know I just feel awkward and out of place, like they're on one rhythm and I'm on another.
I've described it to my other AS friends as circles as well though not exactly as you did. I say that NTs with good to moderate social skills are in Circle A, together in a large group but not overcrowded and happily chatting away. Typically I'm in Circle B, which is outside Circle A and while I can engage the people in Circle A I'm always on the fringes. However, on my bad days when I'm in Circle C I feel like an alien.
I like your explanation, it effectivley seems to illustrate how social stuff "works" in comparison to friends, acquaintances, and strangers.
25 Apr 2008, 11:12 pm
1. how come the part of our brain that helps us relate to others doesn't work quite well, but still we crave for relationships? specially romantic ones? To me it's like we are hungry people, but nature didn't gave us the legs to go hunt for the food.
2. if nature wanted us to be intelligent, why not just give us intelligence with 'emotional intelligence'. What's the need to take one away and leave the other there?
I do understand that using the word 'damage' is not nice (i didn't notice it sounded harsh until i reread my post, my apologies i dont mean it that way) but i can't help but think that we do have that 'common grounds' area in our brain, we aspies just can't access it for some reason.
Pardon any typos.. it's late where I am and when I get tired, I get fumble-fingered on the keyboard.
Interesting thread you've started here. I see that you've put a lot of time into articulating your point of view in your first post. Long before I ever heard of AS, I came to a similar conclusion that you did - that I could tell when two people were interracting how easy it was for them to know how to do and say the 'right' things. Even though I saw this interaction and made note of it, I eventually came to the conclusion that whatever method others used to pick up on each other's signals (be it body language, facial expressions, tone of voice, etc) I knew I didn't have this ability. I didn't know why I couldn't jump right into conversations with total strangers the way others could, and I also didn't know why I constantly kept offending people no matter how hard I tried not to.
In 2000, I was having suicidal thoughts (real ones - I was 33 at the time and had every intention of doing it, too) and ended up in therapy. I remember telling the therapist in a tearful conversation that there was something fundamentally skewed in my thinking that affected the way I interract with other people. It depressed me to no end. At first she tried to tell me it was just shyness )social phobia) and anxiety wreaking havoc in my life, but I kept insisting that there was something else wrong with me and didn't kno what it was. She referred me to a clinical psychologist who then referred me to a specialist and the rest is history.
Once I knew what my problem was, I also went through another bout of depression trying to deal with that. At the time, the doctors called it high functioning autism and later they revised my dx to AS. It explained a lot of why I am the way I am, but the 'knowing' never helped me much when it came to wanting to get along socially with my peers. Whatever it is that allows NTs to understand each other is a part of the brain that I either don't have or else it's there but untapped. Do I wish for a 'cure?' On some days I do - especially when I get depressed and feel that this world is a cold-blooded place where I'll never, ever fit in. But then again, I'm sort of glad - in a way - that I'm different. At least in 'knowing,' I can work on new ways to interact with people that allow for my shortcomings in social situations. Plan A: Avoid social situations whenever possible; or Plan B., if I'm in a social situation I can't escape from, I keep talking about one of my obsessions until people roll their eyes and walk away.
Simple.
_________________
Terminal Outsider, rogue graphic designer & lunatic fringe.
25 Apr 2008, 11:39 pm
The concentric circles is an accurate metaphor. I think that we have the same circles, but we have a different relationship to them.
Your "common grounds" is almost the same idea that I have been thinking about, but I referred to it as "seeing eye-to-eye". It comes naturally with other aspies, whom I've met three of. This ease of communication with other aspies makes me feel really good, and I'm eager to find more to make friends with them. I've only rarely experienced it with NT's. I have a particular group of friends/acquaintances most of whom I have never been on common ground with. I feel a little bit guilty that some people who I've seen off-and-on for several years don't have the connection with me that they should--I'm still a stranger in many respects. I think that the common ground can be found with an NT if that person has enough interest in and respect for me, and I can work to influence those feelings.
So that you know where I'm coming from, I haven't been diagnosed with AS yet, but I've become nearly certain that I have it, and I'm seeing a specialist in a couple weeks.
26 Apr 2008, 1:18 am
thats the point, we can communicate with people with whom we share the view of the world. When i 'tap' into this common ground, it suddenly strikes me why NT people are like they are, and i feel more empathetic to them. It's the feeling that you get when looking at a riddle, and suddenly you solve it and everything becomes clear (and you say: omg how couldn't i see that before..). But it doesn't last, and it doesn't 'build up' to become automatic (as it happens with NT's), it's always hard work.
that's why I don't advocate much on considering autism as just another way of life (though i understand it is in a way). I do respect other people's opinion, but there doesn't seem to be a solid argument on the relationships area. We still want them, as much as we feel happy alone. I think feeling happy by avoiding people succesfully is the result of negative reinforcement. We all grow up having negative experiences socially, so when we grow up we feel happy to avoid social things. It's the warm feeling (reward) of avoiding a painful thing.
you might like another post i did some time ago. I hate to put another lengthy text segment, but it connects to the 'common grounds' concept:
Now, what happens with aspergers according to this? I don't know other people, but sometimes I feel like if that part of the brain that handles emotion and people skills in general was kind of blocked to me. It's not that it's not there, it's more like I don't have easy access to it.
Where is the seat of the conscience? Where does our consciense stay most of the time according to this hypothesis? I believe NT people have their conscience on the part of the brain that handles emotions, at least for most of the time. Where does AS people have the seat of their conscience? I believe that as we cannot 'seat' our conscience in the emotions, we move it to the more rational part of the brain, and thus we see everything through logic and reason, rather than emotion. I believe this is the reason why AS and NT are so much alike, and the same time so different. We are alike because our brains are basically the same, the only difference is AS doesn't have full access to the brain.
This would also explain savant skills from the Aspergers people. As our conscience cannot reside in the emotions place, then it sticks to a another certain part of the brain and develops that part and gets comfortable in it, and in the process a savant skill is born. That would also explain why we don't have the same savant skill, as the conscience can choose any different place to 'stay'. Or the conscience simply sticks with the part of the brain that is more connected to the emotions, and develops that part, because it's his only way to access them easily. That may be the reason we get all excited to talk about our favorite subject.
