watching the english

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am reading a book called "watching the english" by Kate Fox, at the mo. it's brilliant!

she's an anthropologist/social scientist, and has researched the phenomenon of "englishness" in social interaction. it's not an academic book, but more for what she calls "the intelligent layperson". and it's wonderful. (she does qualify "englishness" by saying it isn't "scottishness" or "welshness", by the way, and also explains other ethnic groups in relation to "englishness").

in it, she explains why the english are so (seemingly) obsessed with the weather - insofar as their conversations are concerned - mobile phone etiquette, pub conversations, and a whole slew of other such topics. it's all based on observation of actual people.

what's so fascinating is that, as an aspie, the book is giving me masses of insight into WHY some of what i call "conversational conventions" (or social scripts) have come into being, and what the correct "form" is (i was right about "toilet", by the way ). in other words, it's like a guidebook for social interaction. and it's absolutely hilarious, too, as she takes the piss out of just about everything.

so, i heartily recommend it. i can hardly wait for the chapters on, shall we say, more "intimate" interaction... it is about the english only, by the way, but it's still a great read for those of you not able to access our marvellous conversations about the weather

I had often thought that the wholly arbitrary and meaningless 'codes and conventions' around so-called 'conversations' (parenthetical ramblings that have no purpose and go nowhere, hence the invention of the iPod), was to mask the fact that people really didn't have anything to say to each other but were filling up 'uncomfortable' and 'empty' air between them.

To me, most 'pub conversations' are anything but 'conversations'.

I admire the English for their manners (as this is a big pet peeve and I honestly would prefer snobbery to downright rudeness). But this is mostly taken from Brit tv and meeting a few individuals, so likely a generalization in part.

But there is a definite difference between the Brits and the Yanks which makes me not so fond of my own country. If I had the money and didn't despise change so much (the latter I could get over of course) and if the US weren't better for cutting edge Psychology (specifically physiologically based) I would move.

Who knows. I still might one day.

Vert,
Do you think that it explains English guys to American girls? Living in hope!!
American Girl,
Mellow

possibly. has to be worth a try, i reckon

Years ago, I was very impressed by the film 'The remains of the day'. I've seen it twice, but I admit I haven't read the book yet, it's on the 'to read one day' list. The relevance is, I used to think the main character, played by Anthony Hopkins, was a spot on depiction of Englishness, both good points and flaws. The character was a butler, very proper and correct, but very emotionally repressed, unable to express his feelings for a maid he worked with, even though they were indeed genuine and strong. It struck a chord with me. I was impressed that the Japanese writer could observe and understand the culture so profoundly.

Now I'm older and wiser and have discovered Aspergers I do think the character is more a depiction of Aspergers. I suppose we have as much variety of character here as anywhere else, and Aspies are found all over the world. It's just that there is something a bit Aspie about the culture.

English people smell.

thanks for your thoughtful and insightful commentary, stlf. perhaps you should write to the author and suggest this addendum to her research

LOL

Fox does mention in the book that the social interactions of the english are almost "a sub-clinical combination of autism and agoraphobia". not sure how much currency there is for that particular idea. made me laugh, though.

there's loads of stuff about the class thing in there (well, we're talking about the english - how could there not be?). i was amazed to discover that i come out as definitely upper class, using the yardsticks she provides.

incredible for a working class, East End Girl, i reckon.

The loud, brash, team-spirit type of behaviour seems to be less pronounced in English culture than in some other cultures in the West. It seems that we are 'catching up' though, which is a pity.

The perceptions of the English afforded by the export of some television programmes is probably as misleading as the stereotypes some of the English hold about, say American import programmes.

One thing I do notice is that the English are far less "English" than they were in the past. This perception could be a function of my own socio-economic status, since my background is that of Blue Collar / unskilled manual working class and fewer formalised expectations exist.

Of course, there are some, those of automatic subservience to the so-called 'betters', but that is evaporting rapidly. This hass been for some time no in the face of the overwhelming evidence that indicates that with the right social connections and opportunities, anyone from any background can succeed if they put their minds to it.

That is the official version of our meritocratic democracy and there might even be a glimmer of truth to it.

Perhaps a more up-to-date perspective on English Manners can be extracted from some of the Reality Television shows getting screened these days, not to mention the 'Soap Operas' broadcast several times a week.

I always thought that the English were fairly rude (think 'Fawlty Towers'). Compare going to an American restaurant with an English one. The American's are far far too intrusively helpful and polite for me to be comfortable...

I was thinking more in the work context rather than the social. You are right to point up the tribalistic territorialism of some of the drinking fraternity but that scenario is something that is very easy to opt out of.

I was thinking in terms of the compulsory participation in teamwork which is emphasised in the work place or higher education settings. This is largely unavoidable if participation in those realms is reqired.