*"Single-Sex Environments Advantageous to AS?"*

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from "Rough and Tumble Play". Evolutionary Psychology Journal.

There is a serious and well supported move afoot to provide/reintroduce single-sex education options, entire schools of single sex classes, because of the research which shows increasingly that mixed-sex environments are bad for almost everyone's academic performance and later productivity, but particularly for boys/males, ( which surprised me; I was still thinking of studies done before they altered teaching styles in mixed classes to favour girls styles of learning).

Article called "Gender, Equity, and Educational Practice", by Debbie Campbell, at Google (edited by lau to fit page)

I had the idea while posting on Krex's thread about Non-verbal Communication and Bias Against AS, that perhaps mixed workplaces and schools have been a profoundly disabling factor for AS people in the last 100 years or so; because men and women use significantly different non-verbal communication styles thus it doubles the "workload" ( of following all the signals), and because most non-verbal communication originates in mating and territorial behaviours, which means at some non-verbal level a mixed-sex environment is a mating zone with all the attendant increased and more complex NVC/B, however hidden or not.

I think that widespread and commonplace mixed-sex environments have made life a lot harder for AS people.

And the fact that there is a rethink going on about mixed-sex environments in schools suggests that this may not be such a mad or anachronistic idea as all that.

Your thoughts, people of wp? ! !!

Last edited by ouinon on 16 May 2008, 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think mixed is what I prefer. I never related that well to my own gender, and I like the differing viewpoint males offer. The males at my schools were annoying at times, but they were often very funny. Nowadays I get along with males better and tend to have more male friends. I think my non-verbal language tendencies are more male than female and always have been.

There is just too much male in me, and I think I would have craved having maleness around me if I was in a single sex place.

But I dont know if I am typical or not!

I would very much prefer the single gender model but only if I was allowed to be in the guys group.....However, I hate to talk about sports,fixing cars,sexist gender jokes..... that I have incountered in some of the male dominated jobs I have had(construction, landscape) but I get along much better with males in general...probably more so with aspish males, which all of my BF's have been. Females have always hated me and guys have usually only been interested in me for sex but the only real friends I have ever made were male. So, it is complicated for me.

Maybe a single sex environment could be easier for some people, but it seems to me like it would be only a short term benefit. If you have problems dealing with a certain type of person, isn't it better to adapt and learn how to deal with it through exposure than to just avoid it?

I guess I would get a long in an environment of androgynous people, since that is what I relate to best.

I can understand where this study's coming from.

I went to an all girls school for 9 years and a mixed school for 3 (in primary school). Whilst the boys would be allowed muck around in class (which i found funny, but also kind of frustrating because I wanted to join in too), the girls would just sit in little groups, quietly and being alternatively 'ladylike' or catty. I felt tied-in and labelled.

In contrast, in secondary school, I felt no need to conform. I knew I was different, and a lot of girls presumed I was either a lesbian or just plain weird, but so what? Also, most of the other girls were more relaxed and genuine as they weren't out to 'compete' or impress people (that said, a lot of stuff was said behind backs, so I may just have been totally oblivious to it all) .

I'm in college now and whilst I'm still being myself, I have to fight this idea in my head thtat I should try and dress up more and be more charming and sociable... and I think my studies have lapsed as a result (having a major crush on a few guys is also a factor ).

The odd thing is though, one of my hobbies is extremelly male dominated, and I've yet to meet another female 'regular', but that doesn't bother me at all- possibly it's because I don't see any other females to set a standard of 'feminine behavior', that I feel I can totally be myself. I prefer to be in an all-girl or all-guy (ok, not technically possible if I'm there) environment because it just takes the whole gender sterotype out of things. People become just people, and life becomes less confusing.

I went to an all girls school for kindergarten through 7th grade. Like many girls with AS, I did not have the same interests as most other girls. My friends had always been boys, and I guess I was a typical tomboy.

I was socially isolated at the school for a number of reasons. One important reason was that all the other girls in the class cared about was playing with dolls, playing house, and jumping rope. I had no interest in these things whatsoever, so I had no friends and was targeted by bullies. Bullying was tolerated, and even encouraged, under the assumption that "girls can't be bullies; they're just being assertive, and that's a skill that will help them later on in life".

Even in class, many of the learning exercises were designed to appeal to girls with typically feminine interests because this was what most of my classmates wanted. And outside of school, my parents constantly pressured me to act more feminine in order to "fit in better and make some friends". I had to pretend to be someone I was not and I hated it.

I think that if I had gone to a co-ed school, I might have had some friends and been allowed to be myself and pursue my own interests. It's amazing how significant a difference that can make in a child's development.

A single-sex environment in my school years did me no good at all. Ten years after I left school, I'm still nursing the wounds it left on me

I attended both single gender(all boys) and coed schools when I was growing up. One thing I noticed in the single gender school, I felt I was free to be what I wanted, while in coed schools, I had to be either a geek or a jock. There was some of this in the all boys school I attended, but there wasn't as much bullying/harassment as there was in coed schools. I think if i could have gone to an all boys school for junior high (8th grade in particular) and high school, alot of the problems I had might not have been there and those school years would have been much easier for me.

I admit I don't always relate well to most men, but in the all boys enviornment, I felt like I had more freedom to be me and was left alone more than I was in a coed environment.

vote mixed

At some point or another, you are going to find yourself associating with opposite sex members, whether it is casual, romantic, or pure business. And as some pointed out, they got along better with the opposite gender than with their own. A mixed school leaves more options for what social group(s) to conform to.

I don't much like women in mixed-sex situations. I much prefer both men and women in single sex conditions, that is me alone with a group of men, where my presence never seems to count as "woman" in same way ( something to do with relationship between identity and "group") or with a small group of select women. I think most/many women "degenerate" in mixed company, and that includes me I think even in the privileged one-woman situation.

Someone said on an ( almost)-completely women-only site "Why would you miss masculinity just because are with women only?" I admit though that I have felt this, but realise that it is is a symptom of how "emasculated" so many women are in our society, particularly since mixed-sex environments spread; there used to be more women with overtly and unafraid masculinity pre WWII, because there was no need for proof of being female. It was obvious, and some of the strongest women, in their heads, grew up and thrived in single-sex environments.

I didn't have many friends at my girls grammar school, but I did have one, ( and actually that was enough), and I was less distracted and giddy than when I started at mixed sixth form college, ( age 16-17), where all academic pretensions that I might have had fell totally apart.

I became completely absorbed in working out how you did that look/style/successful thing ( clothes obviously but also smiles, tone of voice, glances, gestures), and copying it. The mating pressure got to me, whereas what passions I had for people before that, for women teachers ( and a couple of fellow pupils but less overwhelmingly), inspired me to greater efforts with their subjects.

I have had good friends of both sexes but I use up a lot more of my cognitive capacity in mixed sex situations than single sex ones.

Well I think this kind of thing depends a lot on the person. And there are other factors at play too, such as whether the school is a quiet, academically oriented school or a more sociable, informal school. I think that many aspies would have thrived at a quiet academic school whether it was mixed or not.

Me though, I preferred an informal sociable school because I was very ADHD as well as aspie and I dont do well in quiet, structured environments as a rule. I did manage to make friends, but it was no secret that I was the class weirdo. In fact my high school days were the happiest of my life, I began to have difficulties again when put in formal workplaces and mature adult situations .

I think the child has to be looked at in character and tendency to decide what kind of school could be best for them.

I prefer mixed. All-female environments drive me insane.

I would definitely choose the women-only workplace, because I would like that lack of superficial distraction back, that focus/single-mindedness. I was infinitely more productive, at home and at school, in that environment than have ever been in a mixed one. ( despite the bullying and exclusion, or perhaps because of it. I'm too popular/"fit in" too easily with guys ).

Mixed environments take up so much energy. Now I think about it it's obvious I don't like them, otherwise I would choose to go out into them more often, they're not hard to find, , but since first exposing my AS ( previously hidden by bipolar) with a GFCF-Sugar-free-coffee-free-diet 16 years ago I have increasingly kept away. I find mixed-sex situations "muddly/messy", oddly flat.

How much might AS avoidance of most social/peopled situations be because of their being mixed-sex; exhausting/overloading without our even being aware of it, because it is so taken for granted?

Yeah, and studying subjects other than Physics is bad for your physics performance. Point is, people learn more at school than just the curriculum.

Well, girls CAN and DO easily distract boys. I STILL remember a girl in a spanish class I had, and several in my health class. They EVEN had 2 sets of monosygotic twins! What are the chances of THAT!? Anyway, all four were pretty. But STILL, they were nice to watch, etc... I figure otherwise would be boring.

The regular girls probably feel somewhat the same way.

The AS girls have the bodies and innate instincts or whatever that can affect the boys, that can possibly affect them, but their brains and basic feelings and actions are more male. Not male, but more male. And that means they may not feel very comfortable with the Girls. So what do we do, create THREE schools?

Then again, the male aspies will probably do poorly in sports, etc.... so maybe we should have FOUR! Then again, maybe we could have 3, male NTs, Female NTs, and all Aspies. I would have LOVED that! I would have felt more comfortable with the girls, etc... Oh well, such is my life. The aspies would do better if pushed a bit.