Excessive Neural Connections and Fragile X

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Tufted Titmouse
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21 Jul 2008, 9:55 am

How about we extrapolate from a Fragile X theory and apply it to all of autism:

The theory is that too many neural connections are created. In itself this is a good thing but in Fragile X the connections are considered unstable. If we haphazardly apply that across the Autism spectrum we can come up with the theory that Autistics in general create far more neural connections than an average human. If the connections are stable you get a Savant. Say Einstein or Bill Gates. If the connections are unstable you get someone capable of thinking but without the memory to back it up. Non savant autistics also get the added disadvantage of not thinking in the same way as the rest of the population with less capabilities to help deal with it.

There we go Autism solved. It seems to fit most of the “symptoms” including the incredibly high proportion of savants in the Autistic community.

Ok now how to where this theory needs help. Take a standard “symptom” of Autism and apply it to this theory. I’ll start.

Lack of context for word definitions:
Autistics aren’t limited by context to define a word. So they tend to define a word by its definition rather than its use. Think of it as the difference between a memory that comes back via a smell and one that you can just recall because you need to. The higher level of Neural connections reduces the need for memory crutches like context. You could also think of it as a lower level scan. An NT would look at a small number of words based on context. An autistic can access a much larger number of words based on their definitions.

Ttyl



Spacedoubt
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21 Jul 2008, 1:02 pm

Well, I just googled fragile x syndrome and after reading about it even a little, I am not sure where you're coming from.

Fragile X Intro

It's not autism. It's a syndrome that involves physical features as well. And sometimes severe retardation. They don't seem to be the same thing.



Spacedoubt
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21 Jul 2008, 1:05 pm

I mean, the website that I read said that people with Fragile X Syndrome have elongated faces, ears, arms, testicles...

Uh, I don't think they're the same.



Liverbird
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21 Jul 2008, 1:20 pm

No, what he is saying is that in brainwiring there are eerie similarities. Work with a couple of these kids and you will start to see that they have alot in common. Neurologically speaking, it makes alot of sense that our brains have obviously gone somewhat haywire in the wiring department.

However, let's look at it from a similar but slightly differently skewed viewpoint. I don't think that it's because our brains have overwired, I really believe that our brains have missed a signal somewhere in shutting down connections.

If we look at it developmentally: when most autism sypmtoms set in is about the same time that most toddlers are learning speech and that is also the time that developmentally, the brain starts pruning excess connections. The brain goes around to each connection and checks to see if that connection has been used. I believe that because of our over sensitive natures that we have a little flagman that will go around and temporarily shut down connections that are causing too much input. The brain comes around and says, "oh, that's already been closed" and moves on. It never comes back to check if that connection was permanently closed or just short term closed. Thus, eventually through a process of becoming desensitised, these connections open back up. However, by that time, it seems that all the wrong connections and sometimes too many connections are open.

So, in that way, looking at it neurologically, we definitely have too many connections open which causes to much input that can't always be dealt with. So, in this way, autism does resemble Fragile X. I have many kids on the spectrum that I work with that have been misdiagnosed with Fragile X as well. So, some of these facial deformities and petite elflike features are somewhat common among us as well.

I know many AS people who are told that they don't look their age, and this is common among Fragile X people as well.

All of these things are comorbid and interlace somehow. We just don't have frames big enough to see the big pictures that they belong to right now.


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Spacedoubt
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21 Jul 2008, 2:01 pm

Interesting.

I love learning about the brain.

You know what I wonder? Speaking of connections?

When I walk down the street or sit alone waiting or do anything, I am counting things and noticing patterns and thinking...thinking...thinking. Do NTs do that?

People always say to me that they saw me walking down the street and I looked as if I were pondering the fate of the world. And I tell them I was. What do they do when they walk around? Are NTs on autopilot a lot? I'm not. If I have nothing to I'm making stuff to do.

Or maybe that's just me.



Liverbird
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21 Jul 2008, 2:16 pm

I'm always making connections and seeing patterns and looking for patterns. I think it's just how our brains work. My husband doesn't think like that. He says I make such weird connections sometimes that he often has to backtrack me and have me elaborate to figure out where I made the connection at.


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2ukenkerl
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21 Jul 2008, 2:42 pm

Regarding the brain wiring and ears, are you guys SURE you aren't talking about Williams syndrome? Wikipedia says:

Quote:
Williams syndrome (also Williams-Beuren syndrome) is a rare genetic disorder,[1] occurring in about 1 in 7,500 live births.[2] It is characterized by a distinctive, "elfin" facial appearance, along with a low nasal bridge; an unusually cheerful demeanor and ease with strangers, coupled with unpredictably occurring negative outbursts; mental retardation coupled with unusual (for persons who are diagnosed as mentally ret*d) language skills; a love for music; and cardiovascular problems, such as supravalvular aortic stenosis and transient hypercalcaemia. The syndrome was first identified in 1961 by Dr. J. C. P. Williams of New Zealand. [3]


That IS somewhat similar to autism. The retardation is not always THAT pronounced, and they are SOCIAL. Some people here seem, mentally, a LITTLE like that. Perhaps smarter and less social/naive, but with the perfect pitch, musical abilities, and some other mental similarities. Frankly, the LONG version of the "Williams syndrome" description sounds more autistic.



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21 Jul 2008, 6:45 pm

Spacedoubt wrote:
When I walk down the street or sit alone waiting or do anything, I am counting things and noticing patterns and thinking...thinking...thinking. Do NTs do that?


Thinking all of the time is supposedly called Systemizing and NTs don't do it. That is why NTs are surprised / don't believe it when they find out you know how everything works.

As far as I can tell my NTs take almost everything on faith. When they are analysing an argument they tend to look at things like qualifications of the speaker rather than the argument. I know it doesn't make any sense but if thinking is hard work, it is "easier" mentally just to say: "They are a PhD therefore they are right." Actually if you aren't willing to think for yourself it isn't a bad system. Apparently it even works for over 99% of the population.

ttyl



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21 Jul 2008, 8:28 pm

Programmer wrote:
Spacedoubt wrote:
When I walk down the street or sit alone waiting or do anything, I am counting things and noticing patterns and thinking...thinking...thinking. Do NTs do that?


Thinking all of the time is supposedly called Systemizing and NTs don't do it. That is why NTs are surprised / don't believe it when they find out you know how everything works.

As far as I can tell my NTs take almost everything on faith. When they are analysing an argument they tend to look at things like qualifications of the speaker rather than the argument. I know it doesn't make any sense but if thinking is hard work, it is "easier" mentally just to say: "They are a PhD therefore they are right." Actually if you aren't willing to think for yourself it isn't a bad system. Apparently it even works for over 99% of the population.

ttyl


THAT is systemizing? WOW! I used to do that ALL the time. I guess NOW between distractions, etc... I don't do a lot of it, but I know the basics about SO many things! I may no longer be able to tell you PRECISELY how a dual core intel chip works, but I could tell you in general terms. So I can't tell you what kinds of caches there are on the chip, but can tell you how any work and why.

And you are right about NTs. The "logic" is as circular as God existing because the Bible is the word of god.(If god doesn't exist, then the bible is the word of man, and serves no proof.) Likewise, to say you must graduate college to know something is circular as any college can't teach what it never knew because colleges had to start somewhere. ALSO, there are teachers with different plans and tolerances.

In most cases, I would rather trust an intelligent zealot than a person that merely graduated in the subject to get a job.



Ems03
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22 Jul 2008, 4:27 am

Quote:
Regarding the brain wiring and ears, are you guys SURE you aren't talking about Williams syndrome? Wikipedia says:


People with Fragile x do often have distinctive physical features such as elongated face and stciking out ears.

And yes Fragile X is associated with Autism. Many features of Fragile X are indistiguisable from Autism. In fact many people get misdiagnosed with Autism instead of Fragile X.

It is rare to misdiagnose someone as having Fragile X as it is a genetic disorder, thus can only be diagnosed by genetic testing.

Today is Fragile X awareness day (in Australia anyway). Look into it. It really is quite interesting.