Scripts and language

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Has anybody learnt and is anybody learning language from scripts? I mean it in the sense of: Repetition of whole or fragments of conversations or fragments or monologues or reads and then taking specific parts and using them afterwards?

That is something that can be due to any autism spectrum disorder, am I right?

But how does it work? I mean, I know how to make it work, but I do not understand why it's not possible to learn like other people?
Or do all people start out using scripts, but don't rely on them for long? Other people don't use scripts at all, I think, seeing how they don't repeat.

Note: See my 2nd post too. I'm talking about language acquisition. How we all learn our native languages.

Last edited by Sora on 22 Jul 2008, 8:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Hi,
It happens to me, also. It is not good nor bad. It is a different way of thinking. You must learn to cope with it. As some have extreme visual thinking.


It is called "Long-pattern thinking" or "MathThinking" by Temple Grandin. It is a subset of Autism, as there are some other kinds of "THINKING".

Some AS-Auties have different ways of thinking. Visual, etc...
Many Autie-AS use this Pattern/Math-Thinking (maybe at some low level). Some at higher levels.

I mean: your mind goes Automaticly, into a special MODE, some kind of Verbal Logic. Extreme-logic language.

I learnt bymyself programming skills, as it is a "clean" way of pure Script-Thinking, based in some way strict and fixed norms and rules of the scripting language. I relax code-thinking into computer-programs.

(Every-days´ language could be wrong, ¿Or is this Script thinking wrong?

Are there any more who get a strong-extreme "Pattern", "Math" -Thinking overhead every day ?
I would like to meet you for a chat one day. All right Guys?
I love this kind of "pure/exact" way of speaking, nice to meet you!!

Temple Grandin:"The more I learn, the more I realize more and more that how I think and feel is different. My thinking is different from a normal person, but it is also very different from the verbal logic nonvisual person with Asperger's. They create word categories instead of picture categories. The one common denominator of all autistic and Asperger thinking is that details are associated into categories to form a concept. Details are assembled into concepts"

Edit:"They see patterns and relationships between patterns and numbers instead of photographic images. Music and math minds often have careers in computer programming, chemistry, statistics, engineering, music, and physics. Written language is not required for pattern thinking".

That's not at all what I mean. I talk about language acquisition.

I explain again.

I learnt English by excessively repeating the phrases I heard and mostly read and then changing the sentence structure, and building new sentences. I don't know about my first native, but I can remember learning the second, English, like that.

I want to know if this has to do with autism, because my mind still does the same. Just not as excessive. I know how to speak good, in both languages. But my mind still goes through passages of text or things I have heard and start to pick words or phrases I'm that particularly familiar with out of it. And then I eventually use words, which is the point.

The problem is my speech is pervaded by standard phrases and words. Writing's a little more differentiated.
If I could use a greater variety of words = my speech would be more differentiated = what I say becomes more accurate.

The inaccuracy is a huge problem. People think I mean what I say, when I mean it differently actually.

I also write fiction... which writer has a limited repertoire of phrases? That's horrible.

That is, I was right!!.
All you mean here is working with patterns, but you who should reread again the whole thing I wrote, and see if it matches with you. No details, but whole IDEA and point to point.

Human Brain is very complex, and you will not get a take and carry diagnosis.
If it does not match with the whole Math-thinking this may be some kind of dislexya or other kind of read-word processing problem you should train to correct, it is not difficult but a training.

if it is YOUr personality then: do not solve it if you do not get problems, but control it
It happens to me also what you write there, it becomes funny,
Else: if it IS not a way of thinking but a slow-learning problem in your reading evolution, then solve it.

Good luck
Anyway Math-pattern Thinkers wellcome!!

It doesn't match which is why I said above that this isn't it. I am dreadful at maths, I am ok with verbal, but I'm not good with logics. I'm a very visual person.

It's not dyslexia. My strength is reading and spelling. I read extremely well.

I really do mean language acquisition.

Don't know how I learn, language or other things-cannot explain processes that occur without my conscious awareness/attention. However, I often pick up "lines" from popular culture or clever articles & find self using those more often, in other situations.
Are you looking for that which might be found in thesaurus ? Finer-tuning of specificity in language (having broader, more detailed repertoire from which to select), so you can mean more exactly what you're saying/writing ?

I suppose... thesaurus would for example be that I don't use the word picture for every picture, but take into consideration if it's a photo, a painting or a drawing? Because that is what I can't do.

I say I feel bad or find something to be horrible, but can't think of the word that would be more correct. I understand words I don't use when I hear or read them, but I somehow can't use them, because I can't remember them.

Am trying to understand what you're asking about-pardon if I misinterpret.

Don't know teaching, learning, or memory retention methods (mnemonic devices, mental tricks). Is that what you seek ?

Are you verbally able to put words to feelings with exactitude & subtlety in language other than English ? If so, then it's this language (English) that's causing problem. If you are equally or nearly as "stuck" for multiple words to describe your emotional state, in any language, then it might be "alexithymia" (difficulty assigning labels to one's emotions)-you may have heard of it, there's lotsa' info. out there on it.

If you're looking for list of words/terms to express shaded gradations/degrees of feeling, I could come up with a bunch (infuriated or irked, melancholy or devastated, elated or buoyant)-am sure there are plenty of online (or offline) sources for these lists. You could keep list nearby for communication-but if blockage is "putting name to feeling", that may not be enough.

I find this really complicated to explain. I don't know how it's for other people so I can't compare and say what is weird and what is pretty typical.

It's not English that is the problem. About lists of words, that is the funny thing. I know them. It's not alexithymia either. I just picked emotions as an example, because there are so many words for them.

I try to get this right.

If somebody asks me something spontaneously, I'll always answer about the same.

Every time I am asked how I am, I always spontaneously answer with the exact same phrase even. Not because I don't know how I feel, but because I have no idea how to put anything else in words in regard to that question. In the following conversation, I can start to puzzle together the correct answer.

It gets worse when I am uncomfortable or confused. If somebody prompts me if they should go or leave while I search something in a shop, I will say 'go away' even though I don't want to say that. If somebody asks that question, I can't immediately think of any answer but 'go away'.

If somebody asks me what I search for in a shop I'll say I ask for a totally different item than I am actually searching for.

I might even say yes when I actually mean no. Then I realise a few seconds later that yes does not mean no and that my answer should have been different than yes.

There are 2 possibilities to have a really good conversation with me:

A) I either can think hard beforehand about what I'm going to say. That's when I can change and make the conversation right in my head as a script. It's like writing scripts for theatre.
I can express myself extremely well in the end. I was always complimented for good expressive skills.

B) To ask me different and more specific questions until I come up with the correct answer. But I don't like that. Nobody asks so many questions that either.
I'm better if people say the words and then I can pick up on them, correct and use them.

I think that's the best explanation I gave so far.

Another thought: Is this similar to echolalia maybe? People with echolalia use parts of scripts they heard, don't they.

So do you mean that each question has an answer associated with it, and you can only use that one answer to answer that question?

Feel that way about a million things myself, too-it's so frustrating when other people expect me to be able to compare my experience to theirs & it's not at all easy to measure such subjective perceptions, sensations, and cognitions.

Well, I was guessing...at least that eliminates some possibilities, knowing what it isn't gets one a little closer to what it might be.
As you mention in next (more recent) post, could be echolalia-I don't know much about that, in part because I don't think I have it. Someone else on WP should probably weigh in here.

Some of this I can identify with & some I don't recognize-even so, I don't know what to call them, how to simplify concept.

Have what I call "default settings"-stock answers that are basic info. & don't require much thought/choice: date of birth, phone number, broad chronological outline of my life story, "what year is it ?" type of stuff.
Other questions require more judgment & "how much or little to say" and "what's this person really asking anyway ?", they provoke anxiety & make it even harder to say what I want how I want. The "default values" for those might be "blurted out" (not-quite-what-I-meant things), because I feel pressure to reply quickly. My answer is confusing, "off", or wrong due in part to social anxiety & sensory intrusions-and in part to being unable to "read" what person intends & my inability to decide what's "best" thing to say (on demand, in the moment, in real time).

Defaults can be updated with new info. but it takes a lot of work (repetition over time) to extinguish outdated/old mental reflex (thought connection) & to establish new path/route (mental association) in one's head.
Bit like training oneself to remember how old one is, after one's had another birthday-updating one's reflex reply by interrupting automatic thought, because one's placed mental "detour" sign there that says "wait-this area's under repair-stop & figure out why". That tells me that the default is incorrect & I need to find current correct answer (quantity/quality, depending on thing). Of course it's more difficult to manipulate one's own mind for complex functions such as emotion, language, or interpersonal communication/relationships.

This probably sounded very peculiar to you & is not what you're talking about. It's best I could come up with, so far. Pardon if not clearer, I agree that (even with large vocabulary), it's so darn tough putting words to interpretations of how one's brain works (or has obstacles to working).

Common questions have. The answers instantly automatically pops into my mind. No, it's not always just 1 answer I think. I mean, I never thought about this before, so I can't say.

I can answer a question correctly of course if I think about it. I understand what's going on, I can talk well, so I can answer it when I take a moment to think about it.

But I just talk without thinking usually. I'm the first to blurt out something and then it's totally idiotic because I didn't mean that answer.




Cool! That sounds a lot like what I mean! I didn't know I was so dreadful with explanation myself. Oh well, no matter.

I blurt out a statement, sometimes while I am still developing my opinion. I don't do it because I am anxious, but usually spontaneously or if I'm irritated because somebody nags me for an answer. But especially if I have overwhelmed or am confused and find myself having 'brain fog', which makes thinking hard to impossible.

I can also update my automatic answers, which is what I meant by scripts! But it's so hard. Just trying to get myself use a new word I like reading and hearing is hard, because even my thought-through vocabulary is somehow restricted.

Interesting enough, I don't have default responses for my name, my birth date, my age or my address. These are ones I need to think about.

Defaults are like "factory presets"-the info. remains until user of system/appliance goes into control panel to modify, personalize data in that module. That's where idea of calling them that came from, also "default position" where "when in doubt, do this: fight/flight/freeze"-except this is going on up in brain more than whole body reaction. Default reply to "how are you ?" is "fine"-even if that's untrue, that's the expected response.

Brain has multiple paths for info. to enter, some carry same info. to different places for various levels of assessment. Some routes are fast-acting but not very accurate in evaluating results. Others are slower-unfolding, but provide greater fidelity to what one "really" (upon further reflection) thinks, feels, wants to say.

Default is often what comes out of quick unhoned (not specific to particulars of situation) reflex, when there isn't time-or there is too much stress-to access and/or apply the "slow" pathways/functions. If one's in hurry (due to self or imposed by other people), that can interfere with taking time to answer "properly" (as one wishes or genuinely means)-and outcome is an answer, for sake of needing to say something.

Example of fast path in brain is amygdala, alerting you to possible danger ahead, so you veer from where you were walking. Slow path in brain is higher reasoning areas (cortex, frontal lobes) which figure out what it was, whether it was actually a threat, or just an illusion-those tend to kick in after the immediate crisis has passed-once the "fast path" brain center has already done preventative job (in keeping the person's brain alive to even have the "slow path" thoughts).

Another example: I could write comment in 2 minutes & post it-but that would be lacking in specificity, detail, relevance. Or, I could spend half an hour crafting an extensively edited & elaborated comment, which hopefully is a "better", more "accurate" post. It's balancing act-don't want to make rapid short vague inattentive comment, but if I take too long to write this (trying to make it "perfect, just right") I'll never get around to posting it-so I have to allow flaws, run-on sentences, tangents, etc.

Hope this isn't too far off base...

Sora! I'm so happy I've found you! I've never ever heard anyone describe this problem before! I have the same exact issue. If I understand you correctly, that is. See below for my description of me. You did a better job, though, describing it I think...you're examples were more exact. I know words when I hear them, but I cant' reuse them. I memorize phrases, but can't use them again if their usage has to be modified for any reason. I don't understand the complete meaning of most conversations. I really don't know how I've survived this long. I am bilingual (Spanish/English), and have the same problem with both languages, though I have an easier time with English.

Hope you respond. I can't wait to talk to you.


My description:



Hey. I think I am Asperger's. I am almost positive. I can't believe it's taken so long to figure it out. My life has sucked so much and I always thought I was just some freak.

I want a diagnosis. Why? I am going to go back to school, but was going to skip the whole mess, because I was certain I could not pass the interview portion of admissions because of my language problems. With a dx, I think that I might be allowed some slack in that department.

Here is me:

Have had A's and B's all my life growing up. IQ tested at 115 and 140. But:

Have always had problems understanding people when they talk. Understanding what they mean in various situations.

I don't ever get jokes.

I can read and write well, but much better than I can speak. I guess that's because I can use a dictionary to find words to say things. I know what I want to say in my head, but can never seem to find the words for it.

I often memorize phrases that people use to say certain things, so I can use them to say the same thing, but can't ever fully understand the meaning enough to generalize the usage for phrases or conversations outside of the purpose for which I've memorized the phrase/word.

I have no friends.

I have no empathy. I have actually copied empathic reactions to use for people in many different situations.

I wear the same clothes all the time. I have no interest in fashion. I have no interest in anything but a few topics.

"Hanging out" has never been fun for me.

I have studied people to learn different body gestures, more animated ways to talk, even reasons to and ways to laugh.

I taught myself how to make eye contact.

I can't start conversations or keep them going.

No interest in intimacy. I almost hate physical contact.

I've gone online to research topics of conversation to use in various situations and just use them over and over again.

I am told often that I have a very stern tone of voice and that it has no "variation", but I can't seem to change it.

Opinions?

The echolalia similarity is interesting. We should all research it.

Who posted they are a writer? Don't have time to go back and find it. I am...was one too. I gave up on it. I've written wonderful stuff and have fabulous stories to tell in my mind, but it was such a struggle putting my words down with these "scripts" (is that the correct term to be using?) and the whole dictionary and thesaurus deal. Oh well.