Don't you think the mercury myth cheapens our existence?
It's as though when people suggest that mercury "made" us - it seems as though they say we aren't real.
That we are a disease; have less value - and that a stranger with our faces would be better?
Does this view not irritate you, too?
_________________
Oh, well, fancy that! Isn't that neat, eh?
Cheapens us? Not particularly.
I don't think people who were affected by their parents taking meds or toxics or anything are 'cheapened existences'. People who were for example affected by their parents taking contagan during pregnancy don't have less value.
_________________
Autism + ADHD
______
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett
I believe that mercury causes me problems, but I don't think it caused my AS. Still, there are claims of identical twins where one has AS and one is NT. That is highly indicative of environmental triggers. However, one still has to have a genetic predisposition to it.
As for mercury, you get a ton more of it eating seafood and tuna and such than you do from vaccines.
Or do you mean to say that other people might think a non-genetic disorder results in a less valued person?
I don't think that is correct in general. Because the problem stems from something much much bigger.
People tend to twist their ideas to fit both person and disorder, non-genetic and genetic disorder. Genetic abnormalities mean bad things to people, but also diseases that are not genetic. I think that it depends on the case, every opinion is possible. You can take 2 people and ask about the same thing and one will think it's death and doom while the other is overtaken by joy.
So the disregard for ASDs as something horrible, the personification and personalisation of the disorders isn't autism-specific. It rather happens to all disorders.
I think we shouldn't try to play in that system to our advantage but instead declare that system of values and opinion as idiotic. It's as if 'hf' aspies would fight for their 'hf' rights and needs. They're good - and suddenly 'lf' autistic people and other autistic needs become bad. (Even vice versa.)
We could also say ASDs are better than... Down's. Or mercury poisoning.
But I think so that we can stop people devaluing autism spectrum disorder entirely, we must stop people valuing and devaluing disorders, disabilities, diseases in people at all.
The same debate as with what type of ASD is good to have, what is not.
I think that before we could even start with other people, the autistic community should stop singling out people and symptoms too. At least all has to start somewhere and if the ASD community wants something, they should start within themselves. And cooperate with people with other disorders and disabilities and with diseases too.
_________________
Autism + ADHD
______
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett
I don't think that is correct in general. Because the problem stems from something much much bigger.
People tend to twist their ideas to fit both person and disorder, non-genetic and genetic disorder. Genetic abnormalities mean bad things to people, but also diseases that are not genetic. I think that it depends on the case, every opinion is possible. You can take 2 people and ask about the same thing and one will think it's death and doom while the other is overtaken by joy.
So the disregard for ASDs as something horrible, the personification and personalisation of the disorders isn't autism-specific. It rather happens to all disorders.
I think we shouldn't try to play in that system to our advantage but instead declare that system of values and opinion as idiotic. It's as if 'hf' aspies would fight for their 'hf' rights and needs. They're good - and suddenly 'lf' autistic people and other autistic needs become bad. (Even vice versa.)
We could also say ASDs are better than... Down's. Or mercury poisoning.
But I think so that we can stop people devaluing autism spectrum disorder entirely, we must stop people valuing and devaluing disorders, disabilities, diseases in people at all.
The same debate as with what type of ASD is good to have, what is not.
I think that before we could even start with other people, the autistic community should stop singling out people and symptoms too. At least all has to start somewhere and if the ASD community wants something, they should start within themselves. And cooperate with people with other disorders and disabilities and with diseases too.
Actually; what I mean is does the myth itself cheapen us? The perverse, almost religous belief - all the while ignoring our views - that we are the result of man-made interventions, a "thing" as it were, is a degrading concept. At least, to me.
_________________
Oh, well, fancy that! Isn't that neat, eh?
To be degrading it would have to be true. Also, mercury has been around naturally long before we started burning coal and mining mercury. Lately I have developed a taste for tuna. I have been feeling different (better) since I started eating more tuna. It's an excellent protein source with benefits that outweigh the mercury issue as long as you don't eat too much of it.
_________________
A boy and his dog can go walking
A boy and his dog sometimes talk to each other
A boy and a dog can be happy sitting down in the woods on a log
But a dog knows his boy can go wrong
Actually; what I mean is does the myth itself cheapen us? The perverse, almost religous belief - all the while ignoring our views - that we are the result of man-made interventions, a "thing" as it were, is a degrading concept. At least, to me.
Yes. I think it does degrade us.
_________________
I'm Alex Plank, the founder of Wrong Planet. Follow me (Alex Plank) on Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/alexplank.bsky.social
I don't think people who were affected by their parents taking meds or toxics or anything are 'cheapened existences'. People who were for example affected by their parents taking contagan during pregnancy don't have less value.
Yeah exactly.
I know people who are autistic and who are that way because specifically of causes that are known and identified such as rubella in their mothers while pregnant. None of them are any less valuable as they are, and many of them are quite happy to be autistic and don't want to be "fixed".
Most people who were 'thalidomide babies' don't want to be 'fixed' either. Their internal body map is the same as their bodies actually are, and many of them hate things that give them artificial limbs they can't even use well (because they require a body map that includes those limbs, which they've never had, unlike amputees) when they have better ways of doing things that suit them fine already. But those have been pushed on them to 'look more normal'.
Sometimes I think the autistic community has too little awareness of other disabled people besides autistic people, they perhaps imagine that we're the only ones who are fine with ourselves as we are, and that it's because it's genetic for many of us, and none of that is true at all. That's not the reason why and that is obvious if you know a wider group of disabled people.
_________________
"In my world it's a place of patterns and feel. In my world it's a haven for what is real. It's my world, nobody can steal it, but people like me, we live in the shadows." -Donna Williams
Actually; what I mean is does the myth itself cheapen us? The perverse, almost religous belief - all the while ignoring our views - that we are the result of man-made interventions, a "thing" as it were, is a degrading concept. At least, to me.
Yes. I think it does degrade us.
I agree with this sentiment and Ishmael's too. I see autism as an evolutionary variation that might or might not be advantageous to us or our social groups. I'd prefer this to be true than believe that we are all "accidents" or somehow "sick". I am not sick at present, I am healthy and happy and I resent the implication that I am sick or damaged because I am autistic.
If someone offered me a "cure" which was proven to work, I would refuse it, I don't want to be an NT.
It like X-Men 3: The Last Stand.
As for mercury, you get a ton more of it eating seafood and tuna and such than you do from vaccines.
Will agree with the second part; ASU had some research indicating that maternal seafood consumption during pregnancy had been shown to have a small relationship to ASDs. Thought that was interesting, a different take on the old issue. The whole vaccine things seems to be a cause celebre for people to rally around so they have less to fear... just my personal take. The idea of predisposition and environmental triggers isn't a bad concept, as it does give some shape to the spectrum as well.
However, I do disagree with your environmental triggers argument. In studies seeking genetic concordance, a condition is seen as having a genetic component when even 50% of twins both have a condition. Identical twins are not mirror images, as there are still small differences in expression and function due to individual physiological experiences. A single repetition of a pattern can radically change how something is expressed - Huntington's is a prime example of a condition where such effects are observed. I would not place too much credence on it being caused purely on a environmental basis, though.
M.
_________________
My thanks to all the wonderful members here; I will miss the opportunity to continue to learn and work with you.
For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
LeKiwi
Veteran
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,444
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
I don't think it cheapens anyone. If anyone looks at us as cheapened for ANY reason or cause, be it genetic or environmental, then they're the ones with the problem. And I don't believe it's entirely a myth either; I'm sure there are people whose ASD is caused by various environmental factors, and mercury could well be one of them, be it from vaccines or burning coal or factories or amalgam fillings or a mother who ate too much fish while pregnant, and any number of other ways.
I think the 'mercury myth' as you put it, and the hysteria surrounding it, cheapens the genuine need for better, safer vaccines, fewer of the unnecessary ones, less given at a time, longer and better testing, less contamination, etc etc, and cheapens those of us desperately urging for that to come about as we get grouped with the hysterical ones with little understanding of science...
But that's another story.
_________________
We are a fever, we are a fever, we ain't born typical...
LeKiwi
Veteran
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,444
Location: The murky waters of my mind...