the truth, white lies, hypocrisy, and feigned sincerity

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i'm a big fan of truth and candor. if you do not employ and display these characteristics--well, i'd just rather you not talk to me. i do not like non-substantive or hypocritical rhetoric, i despise busy-work or any vain activity, and i reject walking facades or anything feigned, particularly the feigning of sincerity. i abhor formality for the sake of formality or tradition. and oh, how i loathe small-talk. and then there is the mecca of fabricated and/or programmed behaviour--plastic politeness in lieu of telling inconvenient truths to people. when one discards reality in the name of being "nice," one begins to do so frivolously and unknowingly in any situation it may be convenient. some people do this their entire lives, either to avoid emotional upset or conflict or simply to satiate a need to homogenize themselves into a perceived state of "normalcy" and feel accepted among the cookie-cutter "typicals." their aim may be true and they're probably ethical and moral people, but make no mistake--these folks are also pathological liars. it's like an unspoken social pact with this type. it's a sad mass of people who lie with reciprocity to each other daily to preserve the self-image of themselves and others.


do any of you have any thoughts or experiences about the difficulty involved in understanding and functioning in a world which teaches one to value and respect the truth, while simultaneously expecting one instinctively know the diagnostic protocol involved with identifying those situations where the truth is not appropriate and should be replaced with a white lie or strategic deception?

since i was old enough to speak, telling the truth has never ceased to regularly get me in social "trouble." i'm sure some of you can relate. if so, tell me about it.

Talked to my "undiagnosed" Aspie uncle about this today...not sure we get it either...sigh...

Plainlyordinary, well said. Story of my life. I despise artificiality and that's what keeps me apart the most from people.

I have enormeous trouble identifying when I have to lie and understanding that someone is lying.

I was in my thiries when I discovered that "busy" means "not interested". It hadn't occurred to me that people could mislead someone so cruelly. And yet they call it white lies, compassion.

I don't find any satisfaction in living a life of mutual lies to keep each other's false sense of illusion and self-image high. It's boring, frustrating, energy-draining to always be interpreting others and trying to figure out what's true and what isn't, as everyone else does.

Yet, this is what EVERYONE is supposed to adhere to in order to be considered OK.

People tell the most outrageous lies to each other in the name of compassion (aka white lies). What's worse, people expect others to lie to them or else call them blunt, insensitive, inconsiderate, offensive.

I hate this world of "lie and let lie".

it's like--if i ask you a question, it's because i need to know the answer. please don't assume that i'd prefer you lie to me; it's a "favor" which you'll not be receiving in return.


basically, if i feed you a lie which is designed to protect your feelings, it will almost definitely be interpreted as blatant sarcasm--not the benign sort, but the malicious variety. when i am pressured by a situation to misrepresent myself because the truth may not be what someone wants to hear, it inevitably backfires and is immeasurably worse than if i had just told the undesirable truth.

I feel the same way. Makes life very difficult though. Seems like everyone just lies and lies and lies. It's considered normal. I don't find it normal.

I never met anyone who didn't support the lying game. Everyone believes in it, everyone considers it good, defends it. I'm so alone in this.

Then one day, inevitably, the truth comes out and people are shocked that they were lied to. What did they expect? Did they think they are the only ones who lie?

I used to be quite committed to truth, and still am, but I no longer tell the absolute truth in every situation.

As I grew older, I realised that lying to people for their own benefit is an important part of social intercourse...

For example... When asked by a woman if any part of her is undesirable in any way, one must tell a lie at this point or suffer forever for it.

If you should happen to have lunch with your ex, you must never tell your current partner about it, and you must lie about it if necessary. It doesn't matter that you haven't been unfaithful, you must avoid not only impropriety but the appearance of it.

When asked by your significant other if a particular celebrity, a coworker, or her sister is attractive, the answer is always no, especially if the answer is yes.

When a police officer asks if there are any drugs in the car, the answer is always no, especially if the answer is yes.

When the unemployment official asks if you've looked for work this week, the answer is always yes, especially if the answer is no.

If your neighbor bakes you a pie that's rock hard and tastes like battery acid, you must tell her that it was the best pie you ever tasted, and she must not see it in your garbage.

If your relative gives birth to a child that looks like Quasimodo with a staph infection, you must tell them that she's the prettiest little girl you ever saw.

You must tell all these lies not for other people's benefit, but for your own. You can make an enemy for life by accidentally telling the wrong truth to the wrong person, and that person may be in a position to ruin your life. I speak from experience on this.

Yeah I have always found it uncomfortable and very difficult to lie I never really understood the advantage of it people who lie nearly always get caught out at some point.

I have been too honest for my own good in the past sometimes, I have learned to limit information about myself because if you give someone too much ammunition they can and will use it against you.

"You can make an enemy for life by accidentally telling the wrong truth to the wrong person, and that person may be in a position to ruin your life."

That's the real reason why everyone lies. But they lie about lies and say they lie out of consideration for the other's feelings.

I used to feel too much compassion for others to lie to them and mislead them. Not anymore. After the way I've been treated for telling the truth, now I lie through my teeth. She can continue making her acid battery cake and making a fool of herself forever, I don't care anymore.

...but it's not just lying with words, the whole 'animated' facial expression and 'animated' voice is a lie too. When I figured out people wanted lies, I'd lie, but they wanted it convincing too, like an acadamy award winning performance, sheesh. I think I gave up then.

Once you cross that line from infancy into using language and body language, lying is demanded of you. That's what struck me when I was a kid, everyone demands that you lie, and it still strikes me as a middle aged adult. ugh.

Which is why I try to stay away from super insecure people.

Ah, Plainly, you said it so well....

I work in a high business corporate environment and got flamed several times.

But a good think: business people tend to tell you facts and truth, what they exactly want because they don't have time to waste, which is a good thing.

I will sound slightly misogynistic here but I work with women and are they all b*****s or what? Always stabbing each other's back, acting nice and polite and raising hell as soon as their backs are turned.

I hate artificial social settings, all those pretentious as*holes that have to show you that they are better than you, that they make more money or that they are better.

I'm indifferent, they notice and they leave me alone. My existence is not to boost any else's ego.

And no, I'm not interested in their new home theatre or their new car.

I think most of the lies described in this thread—I would call them "white lies"—are told to avoid hurting feelings. That has been a particularly difficult concept for me to internalize, because I don't have the kind of feelings that one can hurt. Emotions, yes. Fragile feelings, no. The idea of me being somehow devastated by the mere words of another person just doesn't make sense to me. I consider it one of my strengths. (For the same reason, the idea of a "personal attack" on this chat site amsues me, because I doubt that I would notice that I had been attacked if it supposedly happened to me. Trying to do so would be a waste of the "attacker's" time.)

I have had to acknowledge, however, that others around me have what looks to me like a vulnerability, for lack of a better word, that I do not have. I've had to acknowledge that mere words can devastate some people, and that some of them are wired with a personal communicative "code," possibly unique to the person, that has them usually saying one thing but meaning another. Do I consider this a ridiculous way to live? Of course I do. I would very much prefer honest, logical, rational, and direct communication, where nobody has to guess at hidden meanings or facets. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that I can necessarily write off having to deal with someone whose psyche includes a trait or two that I might consider major liaibilities, however much I might want it thus. Too many people around me seem to have said major liabilities.

I've found that, often, the best I can do is keep what I know of the other person in mind as much as possible when I deal with him or her, and to let that continually evolve over time. I also try not to be afraid to ask clarifying, occasionally blunt, questions, all the while explaining, verbally and directly, that I'm doing so to help clarify and not to offend. If that doesn't work, and the person stil gets hurt feelings, well, then it didn't work and the person still got hurt feelings. I back up, think about it, and try again another way. Sooner or later, if I don't give up, I'll get through to the person that I'm not trying to be antagonistic. It can be annoying to have to try, but it's also worthwhile. How hard I try depends on how much I need or want a particular communication to get through. It, like almost anything else in life, seems to be a string of judgment calls: some will be good, and some won't. I deal with them accordingly, and then press on.

I'm rather skeptic to the commonly held concept of “hypocrisy”. Of all the people who fancy themselves not being hypocrites, a surprisingly large percentage of them are simply using the “honest façade” as an excuse to be insolent, aggressive and/or competitive, and yet many others truly believe they're just being honest and speaking their minds -but utterly failing to do it without being disrespectful, whether because they simply don't know how, or because they forget trying, or simply because they don't really believe it's possible to tell the truth (at least as you see it) and being respectful at the same time.

Sometimes I feel as if those actually able to do that are incredibly rare.

I really think that instead of being taught eye-contact, Aspie children should be formally taught tact! This would be a way to avoid having to lie, but know when to keep quiet, and how to say things without hurting others. It's a subtle subject; but I am quite sure none of us want to offend people we do not intend to offend, and most of us are probably capable of learning at least a list of subjects to stay away from. The trouble is that it is hard to find a way to teach this without resorting to vagueness, or else having to brute-force memorize a long list of "things that will hurt people" and "how to say this in a way that won't hurt anybody". You would still offend people occasionally, but some people are so easily offended that even NTs can't help offending them...