seizure question

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My daughter is 16 and she has been having these little spells where she will pass out for a few seconds. She says that a few times she has woke up on the floor banging her head. She has been diagnosed with ADD, OCD, Anxiety, and sensory disfunction....she refuses to accept a diagnosis of Asperger's. Her Pediatrician thinks that what is happening to her is not seizures because she does not loose control of her bowel or bladder and they only last a few seconds. She thinks that it is due to the drop in her blood pressure when she sits and stands. Her blood pressure is really wierd....It does change drastically from sitting to standing and it is quite high when she is stressed. Her doctor says it is because she is tall and thin....she is about 5ft 10in. I just think that we should still have her tested for possible seizures....isnt there some seizures that are very short in duration? Does anyone have any information so when we see her doctor next week I can try to convince her to have my daughter tested???

Out of the 1,000 or so seizures I've had in the past 10 years, I haven't lost control of my bowel or bladder once and that includes the one where I went into status epilepticus - that is over 30 minutes of continuous seizure activity and I lost conciousness and stopped breathing during that time. Why in the world would the doctor rule out seizures based on something like that? That doesn't make the least bit of sense. I saw several children having seizures during an epilepsy foundation retreat and again none lost control of the bladder or bowels. Same with my sisters cat who had epilepsy. While losing control of bladder/bowels, can happen as a result of seizures, its one of the things that usually doesn't happen


Absence, myoclonic, atonic and simple-partial seizures often only last for a few seconds. The vast majority of seizures are only a few moments in duration. Unless its your first seizure, you only need to be concerned about seizures that last more than 5 minutes - anything less you tell your doctor about for medicine adjustments but you don't need any type of medical attention. You can fall down, convulse, get up and carry on with your shopping - though it might take 15 minutes or so afterward before you remember why you are in the store

waking up banging her head doesn't sound like a seizure though because in general falling down and banging your head means you are unconcious from the seizure and you won't regaind conciousness until the seizure is over. So unless she means she woke up on the floor with head pain/head injuries I wouldn't consider that seizure. Of course this could be myoclonic head jerking so it may very well be a seizure

Ask if she ever bites her tongue (she will not bite it in the middle of the tongue if its a seizure) and check her cheeks. I've little recollection of ever biting my cheeks but both cheeks have a scar from being bit repeatively - so much so the dentist asked me about it


My advise to you - change pediatricians at once and report this one to the state medical board, because she doesn't have the remotest bit of medical knowledge. Also, call your local epilepsy organization and tell them about the ridiculous reasons this doctor gave you for why your daughter can't be having seizures - they'll send her some information about seizures, and make sure she doesn't pull this foolishness on anyone else

Demand a referrel to a neurologist and ask about atonic and absence seizures which from your descriptions seem to be the kind your daughter is most likely having if she is having any. But also keep in mind you can have severe epilepsy and end up with a normal EEG so if her first one is negative, and no explanation is given, demand a 24 hour test

Also what is her mood and personality typically like - alot of seizures are misdiagnoses as mood or personality disorders. My type of seizures are commonly misdiagnosed as schizophrenia, bipolor disorder, multiple personality disorer, panic attacks, depression and hypochondria. When I had my seizures at 12 where I chased my siblings around with a garden weasel threatening to kill them, it was believed that I was schizophrenic. When i had my seizures at 14 years old where I attempted to beat up ER doctors while threatening to kill them, everyone immediately brought up the garden weasel attack and realized that was a seizure too.

Last edited by Triangular_Trees on 11 Sep 2008, 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

there are quite a few causes out there,so is not just seizures to get ruled out/diagnosed.

am have severe tonic clonic epilepsy [something that has gone up and down and up etc in severity,since developing it in early childhood],and dont always get incontinence,should not be a reason to be ignored over seizures.
there is also autistic shutdown which can cause instant drops to the ground,am have this daily-shutdown is where a lot of the bodies functions shutdown because of it not coping with the amount of sensory and information input,maybe that could be another possibility for her to,but she would be feeling the effects for a while afterwards.
it could also be fainting attacks,because blood pressure problems and getting out of chairs too quickly can cause them

second opinion is good,can that doctor not refer to another one?

I never suffer incontinence when I have my epileptic seizures, either - I count myself very lucky in that respect. Drooling on myself in front of people I hardly know is about as embarrassing as it's got for me...

You pediatrician sounds like an IDIOT! Get a second opinion!! !! !! The drop in blood pressure IS common, and CAN cause you to collapse, but ****NOT**** bang your head on the floor through action or convulsion. And seizures do NOT always cause you to loose control. In fact, they usually DON'T! BTW The blood pressure problem COULD exacerbate a seizure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seizure

I SWEAR!! !! !! Should I run EVERYONE through a test like I do for work? I have interviewed a LOT of people and would only hire about 13. And I am asking STUPID questions! I mean you wonder if some of these doctors even went to HIGH SCHOOL!

Well, obviously the other people who replied have a lot more experience with seizures than I do, but I thought that I would contribute that my cat had two grand mal seizures, and only lost bladder control during one of them.

Thanks for all the advice...I will try to get her doctor to refer her to a neurologist. Im just worried because she does not only pass out when she stands up. Sometimes she is just walking and will fall into someone. She doesnt always end up on the floor but she is unconscious for a few seconds. Also she told me that she once tried to smoke "mother nature" and she passed out several times and jerked around. The kids who were with her were ready to take her to the hospital....this was only from one puff. Thankfully she says she will NEVER do that again...but it is alarming because of the passing out.

She is very quiet most of the time. She is more the type to shut down instead of blow up....Unlike me LOL.

You do NOT have to lose control of your bowels in order to be having a seizure. Nor do they necessarily involve collapsing or long durations. I'd have ones that could last only ten seconds, but I'd get really terrible olfactory hallucinations, I'd have deja vu, I'd feel like I was freezing, I'd feel woozy and I would be incredibly exhausted afterwards. Only once did I actually pass out and start convulsing. According to two psychiatrists, a neurologist and a neurosurgeon, the usual sort did indeed count as seizures.

Have her checked with an MRI or CAT scan of some sort. Though some seizure disorders are more or less wiring issues or some other inherent things, it can be a more serious problem as well. Mine turned out to be a cyst that had been growing since I was born that had to be removed and had been putting pressure on my brain, hence causing these seizures. I do not want to scare you or her, but probably checking out all possibilities would be a smart thing to do.

If she DOES have a blood problem, it could be:

1. Nutrition.
2. Blood Sugar
3. A lung problem
4. Valves
5. A heart problem
6. A somewhat weak heart
7. Vascular disease/abnormalities

Have her blood checked, preferably after fasting. See if you can get a a good CARDIAC doctor to check her blood pressure and get SOME kind of photo of the heart (An echocardiogram, or MRI). A GOOD doctor will MANUALLY check BOTH arms! If there is a valve problem, there will be a difference in pressure, and a difference in the sound. 99+% of all hospitals have some flunky checking ONE arm out AUTOMATICALLY, and you can have MAJOR problems, and they won't catch it! Want proof? I was checked out at least a dozen times(once 2 months before my problem!) EVERY time they checked ONE arm, automatically, and MISSED the problem! I was in a HOSPITAL, and the nurse, after checking manually, asked to listen to my heart AGAIN! WHY? Because her supervisor asked if she heard the click, and she said NO! MOST hearts go LUB DUB LUB DUB, and MINE goes LUB CLICK LUB CLICK! UNREAL!

If her problem is #6, just have her get a bit more exercise, even if it is only taking the stairs every now and then.

Again, such problems WOULD explain the light head, and passingout, but NOT banging the head.

There's another possibility; a seizure-like condition caused by stress. They are not 'seizures' per se, because the EEG is not the same; but the unconsciousness and experience of having a seizure is real. It is considered a sort of somatization, rather like a child's very real upset stomach at having to go to school and face a bully. (Same tip-off, too: They happen during or around a stressful event.) However: This should not be your first explanation. There have been a lot of people written off as having these stress-induced seizures who ended up being diagnosed with a disorder with a physical origin; and while reducing stress is something that makes sense for any high-schooler, fainting spells or not, a problem with a physical origin must be identified for proper treatment.

You can also have real seizures brought on by stress though. And you can have pseudo-seizures brought on by the stress of having your real seizures. One my seizure triggers is getting upset, and not even so upset that I'd consider myself to be upset either. All I had to do was start the deep breathing to go into epileptic seizures during my last eeg. The limbic system, which controls emotions, is one of the more common places for seizures to start which is why you can have real seizures due to stress

This is what callista is talking about http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/about ... epileptic/

I wonder if I've had both kinds as well. Because while I have them pretty regularly when I'm not really stressed, I get them FAR more frequently when really stressed out, and once right before an exam. Another thing is, that being stressed out can reduce the sleep you get, and low sleep makes seizures more likely. Adjusting my sleeping patterns to get eight hours a night has helped, I think, to reduce seizures, because I have had fewer seizures in the last two weeks compared to when I was getting less sleep.

Things that are good to check for are by tests like ECG, CT scan, MRI, and EEG. Also you can ask her if she experienced a particular emotion beforehand - before losing consciousness from a seizure I get a deep and sudden emotion, like an inexplicable sadness.