The (so-called)5 Geek Social Fallacies

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Haliphron
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10 Oct 2008, 10:57 am

Anybody ever heard of These: http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html
?

I must admit that Ive made the mistake of assuming that friendship is transitive for many years know and that its all about who you know....... But its NOT all about who you know, its all about how you play the game. :wink:



poopylungstuffing
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10 Oct 2008, 11:07 am

garrr....awful....if this is case, I no want friends...



ToughDiamond
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10 Oct 2008, 12:44 pm

If I read it right, he's having a go at geeks - now that's original.

Ostracisers Are Evil:
Of course there are times when the behaviour of one individual in a group crosses the line and is intolerable, but ostracising is a lousy way of dealing with it, it's literally an offensive weapon. It's a form of love, to accept people and challenge them in a respectful way over minor issues, and even if they have to be removed, it's usually possible to do it in a respectful way. If somebody's causing a problem and the group simply fail to tackle it, it's weak of course.

Somebody else do the others please - his style is so boring that I can barely concentrate on it. Worse than "Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus." Next guru please 8)



ValMikeSmith
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10 Oct 2008, 1:13 pm

The "5 fallacies" seem to describe a typical shallow high school clique (popularity club) to me.



Callista
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10 Oct 2008, 3:13 pm

Dunno... it seems like all five are just good things taken too far. Maybe the author has experiences with people like this.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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10 Oct 2008, 3:22 pm

This was written to be humorous but when you apply it to RL it really does suck when people get like that! Not what I would consider to be fallacies.
It sounds like it was written by a total control freak. The alpha of a group usually employs those strategies to alienate and preserve the status quo. 1.Ostracizing, 2. Criticising 3. Rejecting 4.Seperating, 5. Excluding
Typical control freak behaviour
Rebel!
It covers up a deep insecurity, need to manipulate and fear of losing rank.



Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 10 Oct 2008, 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hector
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10 Oct 2008, 3:30 pm

Quote:
Hey, Are You Talking About Me?

If I know you, yeah, probably I am. It doesn't mean I don't love you; most of us carry a few fallacies. Myself, I struggle with GSF 1 and 2, and I used to have a bad case of 4 until a series of disastrous parties dispelled it.

I'm guessing he hangs around in these kinds of circles, then. They're all fair enough points. Upon reading these carefully I found that I don't make any of these except for the first one. I don't like excluding people, but I haven't found that many people too desperate to hang out unless they're already friends with me. It's been noted that I am less judgmental than most, partly due to my persistent social naivety and partly due to my sympathy for those who seem to be having a hard time socially.



SilverPikmin
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10 Oct 2008, 3:35 pm

I agree with them, except perhaps #1. Ostracising people would only be 'okay' if they are really unacceptable. I wouldn't lose a friend just because they were annoying.



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10 Oct 2008, 4:03 pm

Five Geek Social Fallacies

Within the constellation of allied hobbies and subcultures collectively known as geekdom, one finds many social groups bent under a crushing burden of dysfunction, social drama, and general interpersonal wack-ness. It is my opinion that many of these never-ending crises are sparked off by an assortment of pernicious social fallacies -- ideas about human interaction which spur their holders to do terrible and stupid things to themselves and to each other.
Social fallacies are particularly insidious because they tend to be exaggerated versions of notions that are themselves entirely reasonable and unobjectionable. It's difficult to debunk the pathological fallacy without seeming to argue against its reasonable form; therefore, once it establishes itself, a social fallacy is extremely difficult to dislodge. It's my hope that drawing attention to some of them may be a step in the right direction.
I want to note that I'm not trying to say that every geek subscribes to every one of the fallacies I outline here; every individual subscribes to a different set of ideas, and adheres to any given idea with a different amount of zeal.
In any event, here are five geek social fallacies I've identified. There are likely more.

Geek Social Fallacy #1: Ostracizers Are Evil
GSF1 is one of the most common fallacies, and one of the most deeply held. Many geeks have had horrible, humiliating, and formative experiences with ostracism, and the notion of being on the other side of the transaction is repugnant to them.
In its non-pathological form, GSF1 is benign, and even commendable: it is long past time we all grew up and stopped with the junior high popularity games. However, in its pathological form, GSF1 prevents its carrier from participating in -- or tolerating -- the exclusion of anyone from anything, be it a party, a comic book store, or a web forum, and no matter how obnoxious, offensive, or aromatic the prospective excludee may be.
As a result, nearly every geek social group of significant size has at least one member that 80% of the members hate, and the remaining 20% merely tolerate. If GSF1 exists in sufficient concentration -- and it usually does -- it is impossible to expel a person who actively detracts from every social event. GSF1 protocol permits you not to invite someone you don't like to a given event, but if someone spills the beans and our hypothetical Cat Piss Man invites himself, there is no recourse. You must put up with him, or you will be an Evil Ostracizer and might as well go out for the football team.
This phenomenon has a number of unpleasant consequences. For one thing, it actively hinders the wider acceptance of geek-related activities: I don't know that RPGs and comics would be more popular if there were fewer trolls who smell of cheese hassling the new blood, but I'm sure it couldn't hurt. For another, when nothing smacking of social selectiveness can be discussed in public, people inevitably begin to organize activities in secret. These conspiracies often lead to more problems down the line, and the end result is as juvenile as anything a seventh-grader ever dreamed of.

Geek Social Fallacy #2: Friends Accept Me As I Am
The origins of GSF2 are closely allied to the origins of GSF1. After being victimized by social exclusion, many geeks experience their "tribe" as a non-judgmental haven where they can take refuge from the cruel world outside.
This seems straightforward and reasonable. It's important for people to have a space where they feel safe and accepted. Ideally, everyone's social group would be a safe haven. When people who rely too heavily upon that refuge feel insecure in that haven, however, a commendable ideal mutates into its pathological form, GSF2.
Carriers of GSF2 believe that since a friend accepts them as they are, anyone who criticizes them is not their friend. Thus, they can't take criticism from friends -- criticism is experienced as a treacherous betrayal of the friendship, no matter how inappropriate the criticized behavior may be.
Conversely, most carriers will never criticize a friend under any circumstances; the duty to be supportive trumps any impulse to point out unacceptable behavior.
GSF2 has extensive consequences within a group. Its presence in substantial quantity within a social group vastly increases the group's conflict-averseness. People spend hours debating how to deal with conflicts, because they know (or sometimes merely fear) that the other person involved is a GSF2 carrier, and any attempt to confront them directly will only make things worse. As a result, people let grudges brew much longer than is healthy, and they spend absurd amounts of time deconstructing their interpersonal dramas in search of a back way out of a dilemma.
Ironically, GSF2 carriers often take criticism from coworkers, supervisors, and mentors quite well; those individuals aren't friends, and aren't expected to accept the carrier unconditionally.

Geek Social Fallacy #3: Friendship Before All
Valuing friendships is a fine and worthy thing. When taken to an unhealthy extreme, however, GSF3 can manifest itself.
Like GSF2, GSF3 is a "friendship test" fallacy: in this case, the carrier believes that any failure by a friend to put the interests of the friendship above all else means that they aren't really a friend at all. It should be obvious that there are a million ways that this can be a problem for the carrier's friends, but the most common one is a situation where friends' interests conflict -- if, for example, one friend asks you to keep a secret from another friend. If both friends are GSF3 carriers, you're screwed -- the first one will feel betrayed if you reveal the secret, and the other will feel betrayed if you don't. Your only hope is to keep the second friend from finding out, which is difficult if the secret in question was a party that a lot of people went to.
GSF3 can be costly for the carrier as well. They often sacrifice work, family, and romantic obligations at the altar of friendship. In the end, the carrier has a great circle of friends, but not a lot else to show for their life. This is one reason why so many geek circles include people whose sole redeeming quality is loyalty: it's hard not to honor someone who goes to such lengths to be there for a friend, however destructive they may be in other respects.
Individual carriers sometimes have exceptions to GSF3, which allow friends to place a certain protected class of people or things above friendship in a pinch: "significant others" is a common protected class, as is "work".

Geek Social Fallacy #4: Friendship Is Transitive
Every carrier of GSF4 has, at some point, said:
"Wouldn't it be great to get all my groups of friends into one place for one big happy party?!"
If you groaned at that last paragraph, you may be a recovering GSF4 carrier.
GSF4 is the belief that any two of your friends ought to be friends with each other, and if they're not, something is Very Wrong.
The milder form of GSF4 merely prevents the carrier from perceiving evidence to contradict it; a carrier will refuse to comprehend that two of their friends (or two groups of friends) don't much care for each other, and will continue to try to bring them together at social events. They may even maintain that a full-scale vendetta is just a misunderstanding between friends that could easily be resolved if the principals would just sit down to talk it out.
A more serious form of GSF4 becomes another "friendship test" fallacy: if you have a friend A, and a friend B, but A & B are not friends, then one of them must not really be your friend at all. It is surprisingly common for a carrier, when faced with two friends who don't get along, to simply drop one of them.
On the other side of the equation, a carrier who doesn't like a friend of a friend will often get very passive-aggressive and covertly hostile to the friend of a friend, while vigorously maintaining that we're one big happy family and everyone is friends.
GSF4 can also lead carriers to make inappropriate requests of people they barely know -- asking a friend's roommate's ex if they can crash on their couch, asking a college acquaintance from eight years ago for a letter of recommendation at their workplace, and so on. If something is appropriate to ask of a friend, it's appropriate to ask of a friend of a friend.
Arguably, Friendster was designed by a GSF4 carrier.

Geek Social Fallacy #5: Friends Do Everything Together
GSF5, put simply, maintains that every friend in a circle should be included in every activity to the full extent possible. This is subtly different from GSF1; GSF1 requires that no one, friend or not, be excluded, while GSF5 requires that every friend be invited. This means that to a GSF5 carrier, not being invited to something is intrinsically a snub, and will be responded to as such.
This is perhaps the least destructive of the five, being at worst inconvenient. In a small circle, this is incestuous but basically harmless. In larger groups, it can make certain social events very difficult: parties which are way too large for their spaces and restaurant expeditions that include twenty people and no reservation are far from unusual.
When everyone in a group is a GSF5 carrier, this isn't really a problem. If, however, there are members who aren't carriers, they may want occasionally to have smaller outings, and these can be hard to arrange without causing hurt feelings and social drama. It's hard to explain to a GSF5 carrier that just because you only wanted to have dinner with five other people tonight, it doesn't mean that your friendship is in terrible danger.
For some reason, many GSF5 carriers are willing to make an exception for gender-segregated events. I don't know why.

Interactions
Each fallacy has its own set of unfortunate consequences, but frequently they become worse in interaction. GSF4 often develops into its more extreme form when paired with GSF5; if everyone does everything together, it's much harder to maintain two friends who don't get along. One will usually fall by the wayside.
Similarly, GSF1 and GSF5 can combine regrettably: when a failure to invite someone is equivalent to excluding them, you can't even get away with not inviting Captain Halitosis along on the road trip. GSF3 can combine disastrously with the other "friendship test" fallacies; carriers may insist that their friends join them in snubbing someone who fails the test, which occasionally leads to a chain reaction which causes the carrier to eventually reject all of their friends. This is not healthy; fortunately, severe versions of GSF3 are rare.
Consequences
Dealing with the effects of social fallacies is an essential part of managing one's social life among geeks, and this is much easier when one is aware of them and can identify which of your friends carry which fallacies. In the absence of this kind of awareness, three situations tend to arise when people come into contact with fallacies they don't hold themselves.
Most common is simple conflict and hurt feelings. It's hard for people to talk through these conflicts because they usually stem from fairly primal value clashes; a GSF3 carrier may not even be able to articulate why it was such a big deal that their non-carrier friend blew off their movie night.
Alternately, people often take on fallacies that are dominant in their social circle. If you join a group of GSF5 carriers, doing everything together is going to become a habit; if you spend enough time around GSF1 carriers, putting up with trolls is going to seem normal.
Less commonly, people form a sort of counter-fallacy which I call "Your Feelings, Your Problem". YFYP carriers deal with other people's fallacies by ignoring them entirely, in the process acquiring a reputation for being charmingly tactless. Carriers tend to receive a sort of exemption from the usual standards: "that's just Dana", and so on. YFYP has its own problems, but if you would rather be an as*hole than angstful, it may be the way to go. It's also remarkably easy to pull off in a GSF1-rich environment.

What Can I Do?
As I've said, I think that the best way to deal with social fallacies is to be aware of them, in yourself and in others. In yourself, you can try to deal with them; in others, understanding their behavior usually makes it less aggravating.
Social fallacies don't make someone a bad person; on the contrary, they usually spring from the purest motives. But I believe they are worth deconstructing; in the long run, social fallacies cost a lot of stress and drama, to no real benefit. You can be tolerant without being indiscriminate, and you can be loyal to friends without being compulsive about it.

Hey, Are You Talking About Me?
If I know you, yeah, probably I am. It doesn't mean I don't love you; most of us carry a few fallacies. Myself, I struggle with GSF 1 and 2, and I used to have a bad case of 4 until a series of disastrous parties dispelled it.
I haven't used any examples that refer to specific situations, if it has you worried. Any resemblances to geeks living or dead are coincidental.

© 2003 Michael Suileabhain-Wilson. All rights reserved.

http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html

Very interesting indeed.
HOWEVER, IT IS MY NT COWORKERS WHO BELIEVE THESE FALLACIES - NOT ME!! !



Biogeek
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10 Oct 2008, 4:16 pm

I dunno, they seemed right on the money to me. I'm well over forty years old and have been in the workplace for many years. The social atmosphere in my current workplace could definitely be described as middle school cliquish--and it's not unique.

Right now, I'm living GSF1--the clique went out to lunch for over three hours and didn't bother to ask me. Even my boss went. Although I don't care for most of the members of the clique and they obviously don't like me, I don't think it's unreasonable to invite everyone in the office to go. I mean, really, what's the purpose of excluding a few of us? Does it make them feel superior? Your guess is as good as mine. But godamnit, to be honest, it hurts. :-(



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10 Oct 2008, 4:29 pm

Biogeek, at my old job the people would regularly invite one another to do this or that. I'd overhear them going on about it for days at a time ("Wanna go?" "Are you going?" etc.) but none of them would ever specifically ask me. Eventually some of them asked me why I never went to those social events. I said it was because they never invited me. This seemed to annoy them, and they said I was supposed to assume the invitation. They did not change their behavior and invite me to the next one, they did just the same, inviting one another and talking about it openly in front of me.

Then again, I remember in my teens other kids would do the same, but they'd be hostile if you said, "May I join you?" or showed up at the event they'd not specifically invited you to but talked about in front of you.



NeantHumain
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10 Oct 2008, 4:30 pm

These are not really specifically geek fallacies as they can apply to just about anyone sometimes. He's basically talking about the human drive for communality driven to the neurotic extreme. Obviously some synthesis as of the extremes is the ideal.



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10 Oct 2008, 4:56 pm

Electric Kite, thanks for your reply.

Yes, sometimes I wonder if I'm not making a similar mistake. I'm so literal and hell-bent on rules that I assume I'm not wanted if I'm not invited. In support of this, one of my coworkers who did not go said he was invited but declined because he was actually doing some work (imagine that!). So I don't know. The social world is so damn confusing.

The ironic thing is I wouldn't want to go if I were invited. It's the exclusion thing that stings.



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10 Oct 2008, 5:25 pm

Biogeek, you're on the right side of the law, or Miss Manners at least. It would be rude of you to show up or tag along without actually having been invited. By those same rules it is rude of them to talk about it in front of you without inviting you. I'm certain that the reason my co-workers were annoyed with me when I told them that I didn't go to their get-togethers because they never invited me is that I reminded them that they'd repeatedly broken a rule of manners that is taught in Kindergarten. If I had actually liked them and been on my social toes at the time (not a very likely combonation) I would have said, "Things keep coming up," or something of that ilk.

Anyway, it's possible that they all think you've been invited because everybody is talking about it in front of you as if you have been, and each assumes that some other has actually asked you.

I get you about the sting. I did not want to go to these things. I was part irritated at the rudeness of them discussing them without inviting me, but also found it convienent because it spared me the effort of coming up with a public reason not to go.



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10 Oct 2008, 6:04 pm

If you remember that moderate levels of these "fallacies" are just fine--even beneficial--to a group, it doesn't seem to me such a bad article. There's a big difference between refusing to mention somebody's huge B.O. problem in the interest of acceptance, and being nice enough to tell them about it and recommend a better deodorant brand. I mean, that's what friends do. (They also aren't obligated to spend twelve hours in a windowless room with B.O. guy. That will just lead to secret resentment. You can find work-arounds for just about anything unsolvable, unless we're talking somebody with a severe aggression problem or something.)


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10 Oct 2008, 6:26 pm

These's are things I've seen, and I do agree with these being good to a point, but fallacies in extreme.

I've no clue whatsoever what those idea have to do with geek-ness.

I knew/know someone who has a bad case of "Geek Social Fallacy #2: Friends Accept Me As I Am". In particular it was, never say anything bad about someone, never disagree at all. Except somehow it was okay for him to get on my case if I didn't follow his rules. Even when it was someone else I said something (he saw as) critical about and that person wasn't at all bothered.