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waltr
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13 Oct 2008, 11:23 pm

I'm wondering when others would be able to justify outright deceit. One of the things that has run through my mind why contemplating how I got myself fired is under what conditions I could lie. I certainly seem unable to even twist the truth when it comes to my defending myself. I did conclude that if it was necessary to protect someone else from harm I could justify it. Like if the Gestapo showed up at the door and I knew the neighbors were harboring Jews in the attic.



Fnord
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13 Oct 2008, 11:34 pm

Any lie can be kept secret by two if one of them is dead.



NocturnalQuilter
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14 Oct 2008, 12:48 am

I could lie at any time depending on the situation and motivation at the time. I actually have pretty ambivalent feelings towards "truth". One persons truth is another persons lie and vice versa. It's the same thing with Right and Wrong. I don't really believe in those either. It's all just shades of gray.



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14 Oct 2008, 12:54 am

Fnord wrote:
Any lie can be kept secret by two if one of them is dead.


lol the only things that know is you and your knife


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14 Oct 2008, 3:25 am

And Columbo, if you give him enough time.



ToughDiamond
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14 Oct 2008, 4:49 am

I don't have much of an ethical problem with it these days. Lying is a form of competitive behaviour which is entirely appropriate in a world of mostly competitive people, until such time as they clean up their act.

But I often find it difficult to lie, particularly to anybody who either seems honest themselves, or at least hasn't definitively demonstrated their dishonesty. I'd feel guilty and I'd be anxious that I might get found out. My parents had a huge "thing" about honesty, which is laudible in many ways but unfortunately is also a great way of getting yourself trodden into the dirt. To this day I can really let myself down by being too truthful - I bitterly regret saying "yes" when my GP asked me whether I was a smoker.

I used to be quite purist about it too. I extended the definition of lying to include any deliberate attempt to give a false impression. If I'd known about the term "pathological honesty," I'd have seen it as a contradiction in terms. But experience of the real world forced me to change my view.

Most of my dishonesty isn't really what you'd call outright lies, I do it more by what I don't say than what I do say. It's no less competitive, just harder to get caught. And I conceal loads of stuff about what I don't like about other people.

Lying to a partner is a thing I've always felt really bad about - I feel that such a relationship needs to be noncompetitive if it's going to work. But I can do a lot of damage by being brutally frank. These days I try to use what they call discretion. I have to remember that just because some truth or other comes into my head, doesn't mean I have a duty to say it.



AngryJessman
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14 Oct 2008, 10:39 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
I don't have much of an ethical problem with it these days. Lying is a form of competitive behaviour which is entirely appropriate in a world of mostly competitive people, until such time as they clean up their act.

But I often find it difficult to lie, particularly to anybody who either seems honest themselves, or at least hasn't definitively demonstrated their dishonesty. I'd feel guilty and I'd be anxious that I might get found out. My parents had a huge "thing" about honesty, which is laudible in many ways but unfortunately is also a great way of getting yourself trodden into the dirt. To this day I can really let myself down by being too truthful - I bitterly regret saying "yes" when my GP asked me whether I was a smoker.

I used to be quite purist about it too. I extended the definition of lying to include any deliberate attempt to give a false impression. If I'd known about the term "pathological honesty," I'd have seen it as a contradiction in terms. But experience of the real world forced me to change my view.

Most of my dishonesty isn't really what you'd call outright lies, I do it more by what I don't say than what I do say. It's no less competitive, just harder to get caught. And I conceal loads of stuff about what I don't like about other people.

Lying to a partner is a thing I've always felt really bad about - I feel that such a relationship needs to be noncompetitive if it's going to work. But I can do a lot of damage by being brutally frank. These days I try to use what they call discretion. I have to remember that just because some truth or other comes into my head, doesn't mean I have a duty to say it.


i can def relate

watch the film "Another You" with Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder in it, Gene plays a character who is mentally ill because he is a pathological liar, but he knows how good a liar he is and feels tremendously guilty when he does it, therefore he is a compulsive truthteller on the surface.....it a good movie and i related to this character

people tend to be walking contradictions, remember that



tomboy4good
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14 Oct 2008, 10:47 am

I really don't like to, but my job requires me to lie at least a few times a day. The one good thing is that usually I am untruthful over the phone. LOL The people I am typically misleading are either solicitors or other cold callers, but on occasion, I also have to do it to a customer. 8O If I had to lie in person, I could never do it! Even my boss says I am a bad liar. Lying goes against every fiber of my being. I hate it! I doubt I will ever feel comfortable with lying.


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ToughDiamond
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14 Oct 2008, 11:06 am

Quote:
watch the film "Another You" with Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder in it

I'll look out for it - Gene Wilder has impressed me before 8) Don't know the other guy offhand.

Quote:
but my job requires me to lie at least a few times a day.

Now we see the violence inherent in the system. In these politically correct times, it would be interesting to see whether a person could get compensation for leaving a job that demanded lying to the innocent. The employer's fear of adverse publicity could be a big factor.



slowmutant
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14 Oct 2008, 12:52 pm

NocturnalQuilter wrote:
I could lie at any time depending on the situation and motivation at the time. I actually have pretty ambivalent feelings towards "truth". One persons truth is another persons lie and vice versa. It's the same thing with Right and Wrong. I don't really believe in those either. It's all just shades of gray.


I disagree. While there are a lot of gray areas, there are a few absolute black and white areas. Some things are always right and some things are always wrong, regardless of conditions or circumstance. You can't be morally ambivalent about everything.



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14 Oct 2008, 1:54 pm

I can lie if I convince myself that at least part of it is true. most of the time I'm not really convincing though.

I'm absolutely incapable of any improvised lying.


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slowmutant
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14 Oct 2008, 2:09 pm

I'm not a good liar, either. Deception is not my forte.



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14 Oct 2008, 2:40 pm

Leave the truth in plain sight, and watch the fools search forever. I sometimes think that if I present the truth as a lie, more people would believe it.



anna-banana
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14 Oct 2008, 3:43 pm

Fnord wrote:
Leave the truth in plain sight, and watch the fools search forever. I sometimes think that if I present the truth as a lie, more people would believe it.


oh yeah, that seems to work best in certain situations.


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KenM
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14 Oct 2008, 3:55 pm

The only time I lie is when I know the person I'm lieing to has lied to me in the past. That person showed no respect to me by deciving me. I'm showing them the same respect, zero.



Mosse
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14 Oct 2008, 4:09 pm

:) I lie every day, every moment, excluding this one.