Eugenics is alive and well in Britain

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StuartN
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18 Oct 2010, 5:06 am

BBC wrote:

Project Prevention is offering to pay £200 to any drug user in London, Glasgow, Bristol, Leicester and parts of Wales who agrees to be operated on. The first person in the UK to accept the cash is drug addict "John" from Leicester who says he "should never be a father". The move has been criticised by some drug charities who work with addicts.
...
A spokesperson at the British Medical Association said: "The BMA's ethics committee does not have a view on the charity Project Prevention. "As with all requests for treatment, doctors need to be confident that the individual has the capacity to make the specific decision at the time the decision is required."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11545519

ruveyn
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18 Oct 2010, 5:29 am

StuartN wrote:

BBC wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11545519

I assume you mean sterilization. You will notice that the offer is for voluntary sterilization. No one is being dragged off for gelding.

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FireMinstrel
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18 Oct 2010, 6:50 am

Just as well. If these people were to have a child on the spectrum, said child would likely be treated like an animal.

Marcia
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18 Oct 2010, 7:05 am

I thought it seemed like something which would have originated in the US, and when I clicked on the link my suspicions were proved correct.

I can understand concerns about drug addicts having children as many of those children are born addicted and then neglected and/or abused after birth. However, to offer people money in exchange for sterilisation is unethical. I hope this organisation is stopped.

Jeyradan
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18 Oct 2010, 7:06 am

I wish someone would pay me a nice wad of cash simply for the fact that I don't ever plan to have children...

DemonAbyss10
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18 Oct 2010, 8:33 am

Marcia wrote:

Ethics and morals/good and evil are relative IMO. I myself consider it perfectly fine as long as you don't force it upon those who are unwilling. Only thing bugging me is that I thing they should be payed quite a bit more for giving up the ability to have children.

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Mark198423
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18 Oct 2010, 8:37 am

DemonAbyss10 wrote:

Marcia wrote:

So they spend it all at once and OD?

DemonAbyss10
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18 Oct 2010, 9:10 am

Mark198423 wrote:

DemonAbyss10 wrote:

Marcia wrote:

So they spend it all at once and OD?

I really wouldnt care if they ODed, it would be yet another useless person gone.

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jpfudgeworth
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18 Oct 2010, 9:14 am

I've thought about a system just like this. Not for drug users, but anyone who doesn't want kids. I think it's a great idea. "Eugenics" is misleading here.

Mark198423
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18 Oct 2010, 9:16 am

DemonAbyss10 wrote:

Mark198423 wrote:

DemonAbyss10 wrote:

Marcia wrote:

So they spend it all at once and OD?

I really wouldnt care if they ODed, it would be yet another useless person gone.

Then why give a useless person more money?

DemonAbyss10
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18 Oct 2010, 9:46 am

Mark198423 wrote:

DemonAbyss10 wrote:

Mark198423 wrote:

DemonAbyss10 wrote:

Marcia wrote:

So they spend it all at once and OD?

I really wouldnt care if they ODed, it would be yet another useless person gone.

Then why give a useless person more money?

You have to give something for most people, because in reality most people really wouldn't do it willingly. Also they don't hafe to be payed more, they can be payed less. There are a large amount of variables in question that would have to be considered when gauging prices.

But anyways, if they are useless, id gladly give them something to OD on.

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DemonAbyss10
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18 Oct 2010, 9:47 am

jpfudgeworth wrote:

I've thought about a system just like this. Not for drug users, but anyone who doesn't want kids. I think it's a great idea. "Eugenics" is misleading here.

Exactly my thoughts on it. Now if it was unwilling sterilization, then yeah I would consider it as eugenics.

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Marcia
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18 Oct 2010, 10:21 am

Just how "willing" is it if you offer an inducement of £200 to a heroin addict who can't think beyond their next hit, never consider their medium to long-term future? It's taking advantage of someone and it is unethical. Maybe it's not unethical in the US, but it would be considered unethical here in the UK.

I'm disappointed with the attitude of many who've posted so far. Who are you to decide whose lives are useful and worth living? What if someone decided that your life was useless and it would be better for everyone if you were sterilised or given an overdose?

wavefreak58
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18 Oct 2010, 10:25 am

ruveyn wrote:

I assume you mean sterilization. You will notice that the offer is for voluntary sterilization. No one is being dragged off for gelding.

ruveyn

If a drug addicted person is fully cognizant of their actions then it is voluntary. But if the drug addicted person sees paid sterilization as a way to get their next fix, then it is coercive.

A slippery slope.

Last edited by wavefreak58 on 18 Oct 2010, 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

PangeLingua
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18 Oct 2010, 11:32 am

Marcia wrote:

I'm from the US and I think it's unethical.

It may not be explicit eugenics, but the principle is the same - we don't want people with problems, who are not useful to society in certain ways that we define, to exist. Period. We decide whose existence is worthwhile and then we take steps to ensure that people whose existence is not, in our opinion, worthwhile, won't be around to bother us. This mindset appears to be quite common.

It may start with drug addicts but then it will be anyone who has a mental illness like bipolar or schizophrenia or any kind of neurological disorder.

DandelionFireworks
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18 Oct 2010, 1:31 pm

I don't care about the slippery slope argument in this case; I'm more concerned by the fact that such addicts might recover, and might be quite fit to be parents then. Why is everyone assuming that the only possibility is that these people will remain as they are, and judging their fitness to ever be parents by their fitness to be parents now?

Anyway, looking past that, I still can't consider the slippery slope because I'm aware of how desperate an addict can be for a fix, and they'll make all kinds of bad decisions. This is taking advantage of how desperate they are for cash to get their next fix. This is offering them their addiction in exchange for something that should be considered carefully.

I disagree with DemonAbyss10 for two reasons:
1. Who gave you the right to determine who is and who is not fit to live?
2. Regardless of their utility in this moment, as long as they do live, they might change.

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