Which holds more clout to you? Facts or feelings?

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Factually, the pregnant "man" is a monstrosity that has deluded herself into thinking she is male. If you look at the skeletal structure of males and females, not to mention the reproductive organs, you can plainly see that sex is biological. It's also evident in the sex chromosomes as males have X and Y whereas females have X and X.

Last edited by timeisdead on 27 Nov 2008, 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Simply put, feelings don't influence the facts. Most human beings are irrational and tend to be governed by whatever "feels good" rather than what makes logical sense.

I go by fact based feelings, and, feelings of fact, or just fact or feelings. lol

lol. I guess some can be hard to separate. You can be emotionally attached to a logical idea.

regarding you referring to the transgendered person, that's a brain structure. A brain that's asymmetrical with the body. It's not 'feelings' or 'thought' but a neurological condition.

This condition should be treated as a mental illness; a doctor shouldn't mutilate his patient in order to fit the client's ideal view of himself. What if a person genuinely thought of himself as Jesus Christ? Why would this person be thought of as mentally ill yet the transgendered are not?

Exactly.

in the past its been feelings, but hopefully now its just facts

"Monstrosity" is clearly a feeling, and a strong one. I have seen many people who think they deal only in objective facts, let their biases be known by either words like that, or other things. Some sorts of autistic people seem especially prone to deciding that they have all the facts, they know all the facts, they understand all the facts, and their feelings don't enter into what they perceive of the facts. But they are rarely so objective as they claim to be.

(As far as I'm concerned, why bother being bothered about the pregnancy thing? It would take a lot stronger feelings than I even have about this, to care, let alone to care so much as to call someone a monstrosity. Logic doesn't come up with terms like that.)

Btw, there are also XY females. Things aren't as simple as you think they are. (Pointing to the idea that you think you have more facts than you actually do.)

Wait a moment... sex is not just biological, unless you include in "biological" one's mental and emotional tendencies. Brain chemicals are biological, too, you know; and if your mind and body differ, which, really is more important? Which, if changed, will change the essence of who you are? In my opinion, the mind/brain is more the person than the rest of the body... and if that mind differs from the body, then I would take the mind's perception of gender as more important than the body's expression of it.

BTW, being transgendered isn't a delusion. You KNOW your body's got the opposite gendered characteristic; the problem comes because your mind doesn't match. So there's no delusion; it's a mismatch between the way your genetics and probably your early environment formed your brain and the way they formed your body. Half the time there's something hormonal going on, too, so that you've not just got an opposite-gender mind, but some opposite-gender physical characteristics too. I just wanted to clarify that.

There are probably people who simply want to be the other gender, rather than perceiving honestly that they already, mentally, ARE. That wouldn't be the same thing, and I bet it can usually be traced back to mistreatment of some sort--especially extreme prejudice.

And then there are people who just get off on cross-dressing. That's a sexual thing, not a gender thing. Or maybe they like to mess with people's ideas of what gender is, so it's a social thing. But it's not being truly transgendered.

Hope I got this stuff right... I did some research on it when my MMPI showed I fit right in between male & female gender stereotypes... I'm female, but I don't think it's that important and sure as heck don't pick up on society's idea of what that's supposed to mean!

Facts please.

What if a person were to say, I have always felt like a cat and wish to undergo surgery to become more like a feline? It is an extreme comparison but it proves that inner perception does not determine outward reality.


May I remind you that many mental disorders are caused by chemical or hormonal imbalances?


So the doctor should encourage the patient's self-hatred by steering him towards the surgical route, instead of searching for the root cause and solving the problem through therapy or medication?



Gender is not determined by whether or not you fit society's stereotypical notions of male and female when it comes to behavior. Biological factors should be used to distinguish the categories of male and female.

Do you have a problem with phrases that denote intensity? Or is a bland and unimaginative language what we are striving for?


Everyone has a bias. Let's not kid ourselves. One can be logical and biased at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive.


In order to be logical, one must be devoid of all emotional sentiment and must never have the audacity to use offensive phrases. Yeah, logic is determined by neutrality, even though it's only logical that almost all true conclusions have some sort of bias. Be in a perpetual state of uncertainty; it's the logical way of thinking.



Medical diseases hardly count as what is considered the biological norm. Swyer syndrome, for example, is extremely rare.

Heh, well, it's his choice what to do to his own body; it's more extreme than tattooing; but if he wants to look like a cat, why not? If he's not hurting anybody, I wouldn't care. If he's psychologically healthy other than the idea that he is a cat (people who have true delusions do not fit this criteria) then... well, let him get tattooed whiskers or wear kitty ears, or whatever. If, on the other hand, he had other psychological or neurological symptoms, then I'd be worried that the cat thing was an expression of an underlying problem rather than a legitimate feeling.
That's what the psychologist's OK is for before somebody gets hormone therapy or surgical alteration--they want only psychologically healthy people to make a big decision like changing physical gender. If somebody had rejected their gender because of prejudice, then they wouldn't be psychologically healthy--they'd probably have seriously low self esteem plus PTSD or some such. I doubt somebody like this, once the issues were fixed, would want to transition at all... A much more likely case, for someone who really is a transsexual, is someone who has tried to live by their physical gender and violently rejects anything associated with their mental gender.
Why? What makes the body more important than the mind? Is it just because you can see the body and not the mind? Why are thoughts "less real" to you than the physical shape of someone? To me, thoughts are more real, because sensory information can lie; but if you think something, then it is true automatically that you have indeed had that thought... Whether the thought itself is true is another issue; but the existence of the thought or feeling or mental state is not in question... Is it a problem with the reality of other peoples' thoughts, perhaps?

For me both. I cannot handle bare facts, but I would never place everything on feelings because sometimes feelings can be a bit irrational.

Why is it considered more acceptable in this society to mutilate yourself in order to fit a deranged sense of identity than to be a loner that prefers to be within his or her own thoughts? The former is described as "being yourself" whereas the latter is considered tantamount to tragedy.


The problem is, many psychologists do not want to find the underlying cause. Some are unscrupulous quacks and pill pushers, looking for cash and greater prominence in their field of work, at almost any price to society. Sorry for that opinionated rant, but my experiences in the world have left me very cynical.



There is no doubt in my mind that thoughts and cognition exist. The issue is whether their thoughts represent objective reality.