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Mike61290
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01 Dec 2008, 6:53 pm

Does anyone else have a complete or partial lack of body language?

I was told by one of my doctors that while talking I have almost no body language what so ever the only ones that could be considered body language could also have been movements to become more comfortable (crossing my arms since the chair had no arm rests etc.) Although I have learned basic body language reading skills I often have trouble getting my point across, supposedly body language is 93% of how we communicate, hence the reason why it annoys me greatly when people dont take the words for exactly as I say them.

I also have another question, since we, or maybe just those similar to me, have a lack of body language and it has to be learned doesn't that seem to give us an abnormal amount of power if we were to learn how to use it, we could send false signals on purpose as well as give truthful body language while telling lies, although I wouldn't do that and I dont believe that anyone here would I'm simply stating that wouldn't someone who has an obsession such as body language (I'm not sure about anyone else but when I have an obsession I perfect it and all applications of it as far as possible) wouldnt this make the person extremely influential?

I doubt any of us want to be in politics, dealing with 3 people gives me a headache, let alone 3 billion.


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macushla
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01 Dec 2008, 9:03 pm

Mike61290 wrote:
Does anyone else have a complete or partial lack of body language?


If I ever did, not any more.

I spent many long years studying body language. Early on in the adventure I started learning American Sign Language which is a manual language that incorporates a lot of body language.

What became freaky was I got to the point where it didn't matter what people wanted me to interpret by what they verbally said,
I could interpret their body language (eye brows up or down, head tilt, chest forward, et cetera) and see through their act

after that I had to remember not only what they really meant to say
but what they wanted me to think they meant to say as well.



AliasPseudonym
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01 Dec 2008, 9:21 pm

Mike61290 wrote:
supposedly body language is 93% of how we communicate,


This is what we technically call 'a made up statistic.' Body language modifies the sense of language and sends subtle messages about mood and such. It doesn't communicate meaning.



ephemerella
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01 Dec 2008, 9:32 pm

AliasPseudonym wrote:
Mike61290 wrote:
supposedly body language is 93% of how we communicate,


This is what we technically call 'a made up statistic.' Body language modifies the sense of language and sends subtle messages about mood and such. It doesn't communicate meaning.


That depends on your culture and socioeconomic class. And what you are doing.



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01 Dec 2008, 9:40 pm

Mike61290 wrote:
Does anyone else have a complete or partial lack of body language?

I was told by one of my doctors that while talking I have almost no body language what so ever the only ones that could be considered body language could also have been movements to become more comfortable (crossing my arms since the chair had no arm rests etc.) Although I have learned basic body language reading skills I often have trouble getting my point across, supposedly body language is 93% of how we communicate, hence the reason why it annoys me greatly when people dont take the words for exactly as I say them.

I also have another question, since we, or maybe just those similar to me, have a lack of body language and it has to be learned doesn't that seem to give us an abnormal amount of power if we were to learn how to use it, we could send false signals on purpose as well as give truthful body language while telling lies, although I wouldn't do that and I dont believe that anyone here would I'm simply stating that wouldn't someone who has an obsession such as body language (I'm not sure about anyone else but when I have an obsession I perfect it and all applications of it as far as possible) wouldnt this make the person extremely influential?

I doubt any of us want to be in politics, dealing with 3 people gives me a headache, let alone 3 billion.


By and large, this discribes me (at least on good days). I have spent so much effort in learning to read other's body language and develop my own (like you, I used to keep my arms crossed all the time when not in use, because I simply couldn't figure out anything else to do with them) that I have actually have gotten quite good at influencing others, at least in certain situations. Unfortunately, as I realized this past summer, such acquired abilities also come with the responsibility not to abuse them.



ephemerella
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01 Dec 2008, 9:41 pm

Mike61290 wrote:
Does anyone else have a complete or partial lack of body language?


I think of this as an absence of a "projective affective function". We lack the ability to project affect (or project how we feel). This is why people often don't believe what we say or the things we say don't register, as if we didn't say them. If your explicit words are the lyrics of a song, the projection of affect is like the backup singers. Without projective affective skills, our words aren't backed up by backup singers, so to speak. Some people are so attuned to body language and nonverbal communication that they only listen to your words if your projection of affect, or "backup singers", are in tune with their sense of what is going on. This is all my original theory, by the way. What do you think?

Mike61290 wrote:
I also have another question, since we, or maybe just those similar to me, have a lack of body language and it has to be learned doesn't that seem to give us an abnormal amount of power if we were to learn how to use it, we could send false signals on purpose as well as give truthful body language while telling lies, although I wouldn't do that and I dont believe that anyone here would I'm simply stating that wouldn't someone who has an obsession such as body language (I'm not sure about anyone else but when I have an obsession I perfect it and all applications of it as far as possible) wouldnt this make the person extremely influential?


Sociopaths have these skills, esp. narcissistic sociopaths. Also, charismatics have this skill, like Barack Obama. The difference between a charismatic leader like Obama and a narcissistic sociopath is that Obama is talented enough to develop into the person he envisions and projects. So he can deliver on the promises of his narcissistic vision and charismatic projections, so to speak, and develop into a charismatic leader. Narcissistic sociopaths are pathologically inadequate to live up to their projections and live out a life in which they are deluded by their grandiose visions of self, which they cope with by doing underhanded and vicious things to try to cheat in order to create the appearance of achievement that matches the elite person they learn how to falsely project with what are, in effect, very authentic and compelling body language lies. So "charismatic leaders" = "talented enough to develop into the person their affect implies they are or can become" while "narcissistic sociopath" = "inadequate and unable to be the person their body language lies and acting skills make them appear to be so they are vicious and undermine others".



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02 Dec 2008, 12:13 am

ephemerella wrote:
AliasPseudonym wrote:
Mike61290 wrote:
supposedly body language is 93% of how we communicate,


This is what we technically call 'a made up statistic.' Body language modifies the sense of language and sends subtle messages about mood and such. It doesn't communicate meaning.


That depends on your culture and socioeconomic class. And what you are doing.


Regardless, body language does not make up 93% of communication. At best it's well under half. And languages that incorperate body language don't count.



Mike61290
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02 Dec 2008, 1:48 am

ephemerella wrote:
Mike61290 wrote:
Does anyone else have a complete or partial lack of body language?


I think of this as an absence of a "projective affective function". We lack the ability to project affect (or project how we feel). This is why people often don't believe what we say or the things we say don't register, as if we didn't say them. If your explicit words are the lyrics of a song, the projection of affect is like the backup singers. Without projective affective skills, our words aren't backed up by backup singers, so to speak. Some people are so attuned to body language and nonverbal communication that they only listen to your words if your projection of affect, or "backup singers", are in tune with their sense of what is going on. This is all my original theory, by the way. What do you think?

Mike61290 wrote:
I also have another question, since we, or maybe just those similar to me, have a lack of body language and it has to be learned doesn't that seem to give us an abnormal amount of power if we were to learn how to use it, we could send false signals on purpose as well as give truthful body language while telling lies, although I wouldn't do that and I dont believe that anyone here would I'm simply stating that wouldn't someone who has an obsession such as body language (I'm not sure about anyone else but when I have an obsession I perfect it and all applications of it as far as possible) wouldnt this make the person extremely influential?


Sociopaths have these skills, esp. narcissistic sociopaths. Also, charismatics have this skill, like Barack Obama. The difference between a charismatic leader like Obama and a narcissistic sociopath is that Obama is talented enough to develop into the person he envisions and projects. So he can deliver on the promises of his narcissistic vision and charismatic projections, so to speak, and develop into a charismatic leader. Narcissistic sociopaths are pathologically inadequate to live up to their projections and live out a life in which they are deluded by their grandiose visions of self, which they cope with by doing underhanded and vicious things to try to cheat in order to create the appearance of achievement that matches the elite person they learn how to falsely project with what are, in effect, very authentic and compelling body language lies. So "charismatic leaders" = "talented enough to develop into the person their affect implies they are or can become" while "narcissistic sociopath" = "inadequate and unable to be the person their body language lies and acting skills make them appear to be so they are vicious and undermine others".


Yes, I've noticed the problem of basically my words "not registering" lol. Also Obama doesn't exactly have the ability to come through on his promises. I've actually just seen repetition of past speeches made by others. Maybe the lack of body language leaves me out of the glamor of his speeches, he isn't captivating and every time I've seen him being asked a question he dodges. I just fail to see how he gained so many followers on promises he couldn't keep since unless the congress went along perfectly with what he wanted, (it should've already done that since its been in democratic control for the past 2 years or so I believe). Thats another thing, why don't people do research on the people that they are following, I could NEVER follow someone blindly like a lot of these people did I mean its not even that hard to find a list on congress and find that a large majority of them are democratic while the minority is republican and yet he was blaming republicans for passing various bills. Honestly I would follow neither mccain nor obama. It annoys me when people evade questions. heh remember when clinton "promised" to legalize weed? that promise wasnt kept now was it lol. It will surprise me if any president comes through and does everything that he promises. Also remember the rule, you dont see the presidents effectiveness until the next president comes into office. It takes time for the dominoes to fall :wink:

Thank you for your insight, it was quite helpful.


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ValMikeSmith
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02 Dec 2008, 3:19 pm

Mike61290 wrote:
ephemerella wrote:
Mike61290 wrote:
Does anyone else have a complete or partial lack of body language?


I think of this as an absence of a "projective affective function". We lack the ability to project affect (or project how we feel). This is why people often don't believe what we say or the things we say don't register, as if we didn't say them. If your explicit words are the lyrics of a song, the projection of affect is like the backup singers. Without projective affective skills, our words aren't backed up by backup singers, so to speak. Some people are so attuned to body language and nonverbal communication that they only listen to your words if your projection of affect, or "backup singers", are in tune with their sense of what is going on. This is all my original theory, by the way. What do you think?

Mike61290 wrote:
I also have another question, since we, or maybe just those similar to me, have a lack of body language and it has to be learned doesn't that seem to give us an abnormal amount of power if we were to learn how to use it, we could send false signals on purpose as well as give truthful body language while telling lies, although I wouldn't do that and I dont believe that anyone here would I'm simply stating that wouldn't someone who has an obsession such as body language (I'm not sure about anyone else but when I have an obsession I perfect it and all applications of it as far as possible) wouldnt this make the person extremely influential?


Sociopaths have these skills, esp. narcissistic sociopaths. Also, charismatics have this skill, like Barack Obama. The difference between a charismatic leader like Obama and a narcissistic sociopath is that Obama is talented enough to develop into the person he envisions and projects. So he can deliver on the promises of his narcissistic vision and charismatic projections, so to speak, and develop into a charismatic leader. Narcissistic sociopaths are pathologically inadequate to live up to their projections and live out a life in which they are deluded by their grandiose visions of self, which they cope with by doing underhanded and vicious things to try to cheat in order to create the appearance of achievement that matches the elite person they learn how to falsely project with what are, in effect, very authentic and compelling body language lies. So "charismatic leaders" = "talented enough to develop into the person their affect implies they are or can become" while "narcissistic sociopath" = "inadequate and unable to be the person their body language lies and acting skills make them appear to be so they are vicious and undermine others".


Yes, I've noticed the problem of basically my words "not registering" lol. Also Obama doesn't exactly have the ability to come through on his promises. I've actually just seen repetition of past speeches made by others. Maybe the lack of body language leaves me out of the glamor of his speeches, he isn't captivating and every time I've seen him being asked a question he dodges. I just fail to see how he gained so many followers on promises he couldn't keep since unless the congress went along perfectly with what he wanted, (it should've already done that since its been in democratic control for the past 2 years or so I believe). Thats another thing, why don't people do research on the people that they are following, I could NEVER follow someone blindly like a lot of these people did I mean its not even that hard to find a list on congress and find that a large majority of them are democratic while the minority is republican and yet he was blaming republicans for passing various bills. Honestly I would follow neither mccain nor obama. It annoys me when people evade questions. heh remember when clinton "promised" to legalize weed? that promise wasnt kept now was it lol. It will surprise me if any president comes through and does everything that he promises. Also remember the rule, you dont see the presidents effectiveness until the next president comes into office. It takes time for the dominoes to fall :wink:

Thank you for your insight, it was quite helpful.


Quote:
The difference between a charismatic leader like Obama and a narcissistic sociopath is that Obama is talented enough to develop into the person he envisions and projects. So he can deliver on the promises of his narcissistic vision and charismatic projections, so to speak, and develop into a charismatic leader.


What makes you think this difference exists, and "so he can deliver on the promises of HIS narcissistic vision"?



Mikhaillost
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02 Dec 2008, 3:23 pm

I can't do body language... I've gotten in trouble that way because I sit leaned forward with my legs crossed- apparently that translated to "You're hot I want you!" or something... I get all kinds of weird questions. xD But that is just how I sit. And when people try to pull the body language card on me, it's lost. xD I feel bed for them because I don't mean to ignore half of what they are 'saying' but it just doesn't work for me.



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02 Dec 2008, 4:06 pm

Body language can be quite hard for me but I try my best. I don't know whether I'm good at it or not though as nobody has really commented on it.


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