Moderators, please read post; Honorific Bigotry

Post Reply New Topic

and tell me if my ballet act has forced my toes over the line.

If so, i will edit it when i get home from work.

I stand by my argument that i am simply questioning an ideal

Last edited by SB2 on 21 Dec 2005, 3:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

We're reading it, SB2. We haven't acted yet because we want to reach a consensus of precisely what does and does not constitute a personal attack. But you'd probably be better off to tone it down a notch... starting new threads in other forums with the specific purpose of criticizing current posters is... questionable, at the very least.

Thank you for your response.

And appararently, since so much time has elapsed since the querry, i have found the line.

And it will only be used to refute ignorant statements based on nothing substantial other than generalizations.

Also of note, this is a personal venture of mine. I wish to take a hard look at people who don't show much in the way of mental capacity, but have no problem making controversial statements. I feel that they beg the response that ensues. And who am i to deny a person their wishes if i am in a position to oblige their requests.

Also you stated that,

Parden me, but i see it differently,
ROBERTN was the one who responded to someone elses post in this very forum, on the topic of; Anti American Sentiment.
So i don't feel that i brought the issue here, and i believe that once again RobertN was the one who elicited the debate.

Furthermore, If the shoe fits, wear it. I am not the one who talked him into his narrow minded over simplifications on other peoples political system.

I have children as well, they are American as well. His simple minded views are an attack against every american, and myself and family included.

If he chooses to act a bigot, i am obligated to respond with my beliefs that his bigotry is an ideaology which i feel is moronific (which i doubt is an actual word). You may deliberate over the word moron if you choose. Because that is my premise bigotry is based in moronic points of view. I believe that the word means, actually, SIMPLE MINDED.

I will accept any consensus over this, if in fact it is reached on the facts of this instance alone. And not as a pacifier to past instances og aggregious behavior by RobertN and his ,OF COURSE, ensuing narrow minded protest.

And i also forgot this.

I would normally take a different approach. You would notice if you were to study my past pattern of practice.
Normally i would beg to differ and offer my views, in a polite way.
And i would agree to certain strong arguments, in response to others with alternate points of view.

But this instance is unique. RobertN has showed a pattern of American Bashing. Which i do not think should be censered. He is entitled to any belief he wishes to have. As i or any other are free to oppose. it was clear to me in the onset that he has some biased (maybe a bad trip to Disney as a child) and he was not going to change his view.

I also believe that i need to REPEATEDLY hear those views if he is not going to bring any form of substance to the table. Its the same, boring argument full of holes.
He should be responsible to his statements. And i will not apologize for overwhelming him mentally.

My point isn't to silence him. Rather, i wished to embarrass him into;
1.) giving it a rest
2.) bring more to the buffet.

Because as it currently stands. What he offers as absolute truths, are arguments built upon quicksand.

You flatter yourself .

I was not calling all Americans bigots. You are the one calling me the bigot, remember!!

I was simply saying that Americans, as a whole, are more selfish than people in other Western countries. This is because they are indoctrinated from birth to have faith in an extreme capitalistic and militaristic system that does not tolerate people who don't conform to that system.

I am not saying that there is anything genetically wrong with Americans. It is just the culture of "me, me, me" that they grow up in, that causes them to become like this. Hell, the chances are that if I was born in America, I would probably think the same way you do.

I beg to differ, Robert. Not to mention I was the one who called you a bigot in the first place. Blame me if you must.

I merely said what I saw. Anyone who makes generalizations (especially negative ones) about any group of people is a bigot. And even more so if he has little personal experience to go by. The truth hurts but it needs to be said.

People might not be as upset if you, yourself, were an American. But if you were, I suspect you're view would be more level-headed because you would be aware that both halves of this country are split as to Conservative and Liberal.

You are speaking about what you don't know. Most people on here sympathize with the more logical and rational of your views about the US. How could we not? The last I heard Bush's approval rating was at approx. 37%. Which means 63% of the US population either doesn't like him (the majority) or the smaller percentage who still can't quite seem to make up their minds.

But you are attacking an entire group of people by flaming. Deliberately posting things which will undoubtedly be followed by heated argument and attack. I don't really care what your views are if you can't present them rationally.

And nobody else will listen either. You've convinced no one. Everyone who agrees with you, already agreed even before they met you. Because we HAPPEN to live here.

I've lost rights here in the US thanks to this last administration. Don't patronize me and banter on about "Americans are idiots" or "Americans are capitalist pigs". Keep your poorly worded opinions to yourself. I'm tired of this. Politics in this country actually AFFECTS me. You get to sit over in your UK home and just "talk" about US politics. I'm tired of your privileged views.

Come and live over here. Be poor and without insurance. THEN maybe I'll listen to you. In the meantime, I suggest for this topic in future you should only speak of what you've experienced. Nobody can argue that.

Yeah, but you're speaking from a privileged position — one where people have to be careful what they say to you. With that in mind, you shouldn't be calling RobertN a bigot. Considering your "warnings" to me with regard to things where I "merely said what I saw", I'd suggest you're seeming like a hypocrite. Note, I'm not saying you are; just that your actions may lead the casual observer to believe that is the case.

Think about it.

Would it be more appropriate to state that a sweeping generalization is a bigoted, narrow minded way to see things.
and i personally think that bigotry is a weak basis for an argument.
Therefore it is a moronific example of bigotry to do so.

If the shoe is the correct size, put it on and wera ir for crimany sakes.


Ascan, i appreciate many of your statements, some i dont.
But please do not cheapen my arghuments with your continued lamenting over a topic which apparently is final. I fear that no matter how well formulated my thesis is, that your presence over your past issues will only serve to aid in a wrongful ruling on my subject.

This would be due to a perceived view of consistency.

Rather, i would like to have this point deliberated by the moderators only upon its merits.

You people desire to have more of a democratic model on this site, well this is how you achieve it.
First there is no such thing as a true democracy. Democracy is a continuing struggle aimed at achieving the wishes of the people within a society.
Since it happens slowly and over time, you need to define the boundries within the rules. Thus a need for establishing precident.

I think this case is unique, so please do not drag it down with redundant lamenting

robertN inaccurately, once again, claims,

response to my statement


Stick to the facts of the case. Your spin is not welcome. Matter of fact it is inflammatory for you to claim that this is about something it is not. i never argued against your claim of american bigotry. Since you never made that claim. And it also would not be a true claim if you had. Finally discretion.

then you go on to make your case,





Your third word first sentence is the most accurate description to date. Your comments are simple, and the way your mind formulates an opinion about america is feeble. The whole paragraph justifies my position so there is nothing more to say.

but i will remind you, Americans are conditioned into believing that they can be whatever they choose to be, under the lie of freedom. And we do not have compulsory military service. And our faith is spawned from a dead notion of the American dream. Where any person can own a piece of america, by purchasing a home which is theirs.
we do not have to pay the king and queen to squat on our own square footage. Oops never mind, we weren't supposed to pay property tax.


The diverse nature in america makes it impossible to make generalizing stattements about its citizenry. if you would prefer to make statement about the government and the direction it is moving, in your opinion, then you would be closer to the truth. And just might receive support.

Full circle.

read original title post.

Ugh... ascan, this isn't about you. There is an entire moderating staff. If you have further qualms, approach us about them instead of randomly bringing them up in unrelated posts.

You are more than welcome to contact ANY of us if you have anything new to bring to your arguments.

Americans are people.

I try not to make generalisations about people.

Ergo, I try not to generalise about Americans (some of my best mates are Americans, as are some of my relations - by choice and by chance in roughly equal numbers).

Robert, I'm not trying to criticise you personally, but I try to reserve my own venom for my own leaders and not waste my time making gratuitous attacks on people who can't answer back or on people you can't do much about.

From my perspective Bush has actually improved since he was re-elected, which he was on quite a secure footing this time round, particularly by promoting a black woman to Secretary of State which is happening under a Republican administration.

Our own leader I do confess to hating, but at least I've stuck my money where my mouth was on that score (and you are perfectly able to disagree with me if you like...though I don't see the LDs getting anywhere near to being the official opposition in the next 50-100 years, mind you, neither do I see my own party as god's gift to democracy at the moment either...).

Who are you to decide what is and isn't welcome.

Sophist, Ascan has a good point. You are a moderator and you should know better than to make personal comments about people, especially as you, in the past, have given warnings to other people for the same offense. Do as you would be done by.

And actually, what happens in the US does affect me. You are currently pumping out more pollution and CO2 than the whole of Europe combined. My home here in Cambridgeshire is on a low lying plain that will be flooded if the sea levels rise much more. How will you compensate my parents for the loss of their property? Answer - you won't bother. How will you compensate the thousands of Bangladeshi's whose homes and livelihoods will be destroyed because 80% of their country lies below 1m. Answer - Bangladeshi's are worthless, let them die.

Moderators are held to the same standards as anyone else on this forum. We, also, can receive warnings and advisories.

Just because I am a moderator I am no longer allowed to be a member?

RobertN its your whole post which leads me to believe that you have definate symantic challenges, you do not under stand the entire meaning of anything, you simply (simple is as simple does)take parts of words and apply your own truth to them.
Instead of tackling comlicated topics with real meaning go to the talk about the weather forum.
there you might make sense.

What doe the price of coffee beans have anything to do with the reason my car won't start.

That is precisely the way you come across.

New Orleans had a flood, a city rich in history and culture is gone.

Bush ignored them, the American people rallied around those poor Orleanites.

When you speak, speak to the problem not to the people having to deal with the problem themselves.

And its everyAmericans fault that there was a tidal wave. It was a carefully orchestrated plan by the mass of evil americans to destroy those sub human bangladeshians. Listen to yourself, your statements are weak and overgeneralized, ergo, moronific bigotry.
full circle

Thank you very much for supporteing each and every claim i have made. each time you open your trap, makes it much less likely that i will see any sanctions at all. you are a true friend for sacrificing yourself like that. I owe you one big guy.

RobertN is correct in one regard: I should have known better than to posit myself into the unending, circular arguments of this thread by actually posting.

I withdraw myself. I guess a moderator can't be a member as well.

And I'll remind everyone, including myself, that PERSONAL ATTACKS aren't allowed despite their provocation or, in some opinions, how much they are "asking for it".