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jmfoster
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24 Jan 2009, 11:57 am

...Greed and ignorance, I don't see why governments can't just sit around a table and comprimize about there issues, and they say that you should talk instead of fight? They don't set a good example, that's where the words greed and immature come in...
Just think with all the time and money invested into making 'weapons of mass destruction' and killing, they could be solving the African poverty, when there's such people that are starving to death and catching diseases, then you'll know that theirs no room for wasting time and putting money into killing eachother.

Comment back if you think the same way or share your views :)


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Dussel
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24 Jan 2009, 12:10 pm

About which war you are talking about?



Metal_Man
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24 Jan 2009, 12:18 pm

War is nature's way of keeping the human population in check. Since we are the planet's apex predator the only way to keep that population in balance is to go to war with ourselves.


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ruveyn
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24 Jan 2009, 12:34 pm

jmfoster wrote:
...Greed and ignorance, I don't see why governments can't just sit around a table and comprimize about there issues, and they say that you should talk instead of fight? They don't set a good example, that's where the words greed and immature come in...
Just think with all the time and money invested into making 'weapons of mass destruction' and killing, they could be solving the African poverty, when there's such people that are starving to death and catching diseases, then you'll know that theirs no room for wasting time and putting money into killing eachother.

Comment back if you think the same way or share your views :)


War is about killing people and busting up their s**t.

See what Conan the Barbarian has to say about war

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30tyaXv6EI


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NocturnalQuilter
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24 Jan 2009, 2:46 pm

War has always been and will always be about fiscal growth at the expense of the loosing side. Nothing more or less.



Dussel
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24 Jan 2009, 3:12 pm

Metal_Man wrote:
War is nature's way of keeping the human population in check. Since we are the planet's apex predator the only way to keep that population in balance is to go to war with ourselves.


Does not work that "well" in recent times. Whilst the Thirty Years' War still wiped out about 1/3 of the population, modern warfare is much less effective, even not in 2. World War.



Dussel
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24 Jan 2009, 3:14 pm

NocturnalQuilter wrote:
War has always been and will always be about fiscal growth at the expense of the loosing side. Nothing more or less.


Which is also a sign for hope: One of the reasons why Europa is currently in longest period of peace since the end of the Roman Empire is just that war would be a bad business for all involved. The potential gains are much lower than the certain costs.



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27 Jan 2009, 4:11 am

there's more to it


War is usually the result of a dictator who wants to silence opposition from rising up, and influencing his/her people from rising up, and overthrowing him/her.

In most cases, it usually gets started due to the irrational beliefs of a dictatorial figure to stomp on others' freedoms and control them.

In other cases, it can be over clashing values of civilizations.

As Penn & Teller said about "world peace" in their show "Bull$%!+", the closest we can ever expect to get to it is free trade among nations. One nation may hate another nation's guts...but as long as there's trade and commerce between them, they won't do anything stupid to upset the balance.

Of course, not all people are smart enough to figure that out, and many will try to take over other countries and control them.

Reminds me of that 3rd rate dictator, Adolf Hitler....he turns his back on his best ally- Joseph Stalin( quite possibly the evilest dictator of the 20th century)- invades Soviet Russia, and gets most of his Nazi soldiers wiped out. Yeah, brilliant strategy.....



Dussel
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27 Jan 2009, 4:32 am

TheDoctor82 wrote:
War is usually the result of a dictator who wants to silence opposition from rising up, and influencing his/her people from rising up, and overthrowing him/her.


For a democratic country an occupation of an other country against his will is normally very bad deal: The cost of suppressing are very high and are not covered easily by the gains of this country. Also it is mostly hard to explain the voter why their government shall suppress an other people - not consistent with democratic ideology. At least in the long history of European wars, never a democratic country was in war with an other one.

But occasionally it happens.

TheDoctor82 wrote:
Of course, not all people are smart enough to figure that out, and many will try to take over other countries and control them.

Reminds me of that 3rd rate dictator, Adolf Hitler....he turns his back on his best ally- Joseph Stalin( quite possibly the evilest dictator of the 20th century)- invades Soviet Russia, and gets most of his Nazi soldiers wiped out. Yeah, brilliant strategy.....


Hitler did not act rationally at all. In my option the most enlightening source are the books of the Reichsbank (Central Bank). When Hitler took office the Reichsbank 1933 had reserves in gold and other currencies of approx. 1400 Mio. Reichsmark (RM) - even in Great Depression the government finances and the reserves of Germany were quite sound. But: Even after plundering the Austrian Central Bank 1938, in September 1939 this amount was just below 2 Mio. RM. The exports were declining stately even below the level of 1929 of the Great Depression, at the same time there was an overload of printed money in Germany, which lead in 1938 to a general price control regime (otherwise an inflation would be unavoidable).

This financial policy does only make sense under the premises that Hitler ruined systematically German's currency and reserves to prepare a war with an uncertain result. He acted much more than a gambler than a rational statesman.

BTW: It took (West-)Germany till 1988 to settle the financial mess Hitler left. Further payments following the unification will be settled in 2010.



TheDoctor82
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28 Jan 2009, 8:39 pm

Dude....NO dictator acts rationally. The very idea of clamping down on individual rights goes against any and all reason. Being dictatorial and totalitarian by very definition is anti-reason.

Hitler blamed the Jews for their financial problems when it was severe Socialist policy that did it...the great German Inflation of 1928.

but c'mon....you think anyone's gonna say "it wasn't his fault...it was our idiotic anti-Capitalist policies, which we'll continue with 'til the end of time...he just blamed someone else, which we enjoyed more"?

Wake up, dude.

I'll be surprised if I live to see the day when most humans become even 1/10th of the way that rational.....



Dussel
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29 Jan 2009, 3:11 am

TheDoctor82 wrote:
Hitler blamed the Jews for their financial problems when it was severe Socialist policy that did it...the great German Inflation of 1928.


Correction: The Great Inflation in Germany was 1922/23. I got its biggest turn under Reichkanzler Cuno (no party, but certainly not a socialist). Reichskanzler Stresemann stop the inflation with a radical currency cut on the 15 Nov. 1923 (4.2 Bio. Reichsmark = 1 Rentenmark) and the introduction of an independent central bank, a system which worked well till 1933 and was guideline for the organisation of the Bundesbank and later the ECB. In this system the central bank is fully independent and has only one real responsibility: The stability of the currency and can't be used to create credit or money for the government.



TheDoctor82
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04 Feb 2009, 4:46 am

Dussel wrote:
TheDoctor82 wrote:
Hitler blamed the Jews for their financial problems when it was severe Socialist policy that did it...the great German Inflation of 1928.


Correction: The Great Inflation in Germany was 1922/23. I got its biggest turn under Reichkanzler Cuno (no party, but certainly not a socialist). Reichskanzler Stresemann stop the inflation with a radical currency cut on the 15 Nov. 1923 (4.2 Bio. Reichsmark = 1 Rentenmark) and the introduction of an independent central bank, a system which worked well till 1933 and was guideline for the organisation of the Bundesbank and later the ECB. In this system the central bank is fully independent and has only one real responsibility: The stability of the currency and can't be used to create credit or money for the government.


Well, something I actually forgot up until you brought that up: Hitler did not win the election in Germany; Hindenburg did...but caved in to Hitler's demands and eventually got overthrown by him. Regardless, even though the inflation ended, peoples' emotions towards the situation did NOT cool down, and they wanted someone to blame. Naturally, who wants to blame the state who screwed everything up?

Regardless, Hitler still wasn't even remotely rational in his beliefs, nor in how he expressed them. Had Stalin been rational, he sure wouldn't have followed Marxism, and dropped the Iron Curtain on Eastern Europe, and most of Asia.

It's not greed that starts wars, it's lack of reason; AKA not thinking.