AS and lacking Empathy

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To me, there is a constant irony with the care and concern people show each other here. For example, I find Tom Gray's page to be very caring: http://yourautism.co.uk/tom.aspx

Is Empathy really the right word for what AS people lack? Here is the definition: Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives.

This is rushed written and not complete, but to me, what I see is more like:

-- non-typical (confusing or intense) emotional response to emotional stimulus
-- having to reason out emotions vs. "automatic feeling". Think automatic vs. manual transmission on a car.
-- emotional imaturity, stunted emotional development. At least that's how I think most NT's would describe it.


I work really hard to understand and get along with NT people. Aren't most of the people here on this forum trying to do the same? I don't see that AS people lack guilt or other consequences of hurting people or even being sensitive to an animal or person in pain.

To me, it seems like AS people are emotionally clumsy. It isn't that AS people lack Empathy, it is more they are just really sloppy and stumble with emotional stimulus. They have no fine control, see things in black/white. They have to reason through morals and judgements... which often can make them have MORE Empathy for a stranger than an NT person! Like more reasoned, objective Empathy.

Has this focus on "Empathy" and the meaning of the word come up before?

I think I have just as much empathy as any NT, just as caring. I think the problem is in showing. I dont think anyone consideres aspies to not have empathy (those familiar with it, i dont think i've read anything relating to AS stating we didnt have it) but that we appear to not have it to unfamiliar NT people.

Like recently i've been told by a few people that I act like I have a chip on my shoulder. I have no idea what that even means or how i'm acting that way.

TobyZ, this is really critical thinking on your part. Had not before considered it! I think Willa is spot-on. Perhaps the NT world tries to make sense of us - and mis-interprets.

I know one other Aspie, and both of us are very empathic. To the point that to actually see what is - the circumstance of humanity and all things living - is at times painful.

But paradoxically, I do not become connected.

So: I can in my profession truly empathize with and work very hard to heal an individual - in fact empathy causes one to work all the harder - but oddly I do not connect on a personal level. I would not ever wish to have that person as a friend, for example.

I think we are empathic. We just cannot connect. And perhaps to the NT world, it is the same.

I couldn't agree more. It's a more conscious process. (Think about it...where do most NTs unconsciously absorb their 'understanding' for other people's feelings? In the school playground. I rest my case.)

Because a lot of my actions, whether it's through my own fault or not, have been misconstrued in the past, I often find myself thinking about how my actions will affect other people. A lot of NT folks seem to assume they know how other people feel...then ride roughshod over them. Or they do appear to know what hurts others, they just don't appear to care. What's going on there?

One thing I do find is that while I can try to understand how people are feeling, I often don't know what the appropriate reaction is. But again, sometimes that's less hazardous. Like when someone dies. When my mother died, a lot of people simply assumed I needed hugs and comfort at having lost 'my mom, my best friend'. In fact, what I desperately needed was a non-judgemental listening ear, and some affirmation of the relief I was undergoing from experiencing the end of a crappy non-relationship I'd been struggling unsuccessfully to sustain for forty years. Nobody thought to actually ask how I was feeling.

I wish NTs would check in with people's feelings more often rather than assuming they know. Sometimes it doesn't seem they're using real empathy so much as picking from a limited 'appropriate' emotional palette according to the situation.

Critical thinking is my best skill and biggest curse in life

As I've started to tell people I have AS, some come back to me and say "but you don't lack Empathy"... and I find myself wanting to define Empathy to them. It is what inspired this thread. I find I have it in a morality way (I'm an idealist), but in a one on one conversation, things break down. I can get stuck in discussions where I'm making the NT person uncomfortable or take it too serious for them. In that sense, I lack the empathy to give up - as I end up suffering from the lack of understanding. It's a constant crisis in life. And where I have the most emotional stress (very long term relationships and communications). The need to grasp situations vs. the ability to understand on the simple level other people seem to want/need/desire.

I do give a s**t about things, but I'm much more intellectual and morally motivated. I don't mean churchy morality, I mean the best of humanity kind (I suggest study Joseph Campbell). Plus, even if we intend to do the right thing... I split intention from execution. The phrase "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" always comes to my mind when things blow up and it all goes wrong Ability to act in emotional situations is often very clumsy, despite having very healthy reasons to want to.

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Amen.

I can relate to your experiences. I had an aunt that passed away that I didn't see that much. When I was at her bedside while she was dying, I just stood there, with no emotion at all, while everyone else was sad and crying. I knew that I should feel sad and that other people were hurting, but I didn't feel anything myself.

On the other hand, When my grandma passed away (I visited her at least a couple times a week, and got along with her pretty good ), I cried at her funeral and was truly sad.

I think alot of our problems have to do with connecting and understanding people more than actually empathizing with people. I also think we are more honest with our emotions than NT people. If we don't feel something, we dont pretend to feel it, whereas NT people do.

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Critical thought is indeed a double-edged sword.

This is excellent. RedHairedGrrl suggests - I think - the NT prefers to "pigeon-hole" things and are accustomed to the quick answer - while we actually have to think. And when you try to then explain....

So we have developed the patience to laboriously analyze, but when we then attempt to explain to an NT - they lack the patience to actually listen or understand. Particularly if it does not fit the pigeon-hole.

Who created DSM IV-TR? A committee.
What kind of physician is selected for a committee? It is a social undertaking, so it would be NT's.
How do we seem - into what pigeon-hole do we seem to fit for NT's? We are lacking in empathy.

Oh boy, you just touched on another thing. I've actually been working on a diagram, as I've tried to explain it to girlfriends/wife in the past.

First your brain has to make sense of things, then you have to put it into thoughts, then you have to put it into words (English), then you have to say them clearly, then the other person has to hear them clearly, then they have to reverse process them, then they have their own clash of ideas or bias, then they have to react emotionally / physically to it...

It's amazing anyone can communicate at all i never take it for granted. it's exhausting.

I want to add one additional line of thought I had...

1) Situational empathy. Such as feeling sorry for someone who had their house burn down and lost a pet. Especially if the fire was natural causes, such as a lightning strike.

2) Manipulative empathy. Such as a salesperson who says they really need to sell you that magazine to make their quota. Or a used car salesman.


I find I'm very positive on #1, I'm very strongly empathetic of people in situations. #2, I find I'm very resistant and cold to sales tactics, marketing, etc. Even some "chick flick" emotional movies, I find insulting.

i recently read this article, i was searching for a reason as to why i resisted the idea so much that people with aspergers(or atleast myself) dont feel empathy.
my feeling of empathy seems to me to be the reason why i find things so hard, because i feel things yet at the same time am disconnected from them with no way to bridge the divide

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic ... e/Asperger’s_syndrome_may_not_lead_to_lack_of_empathy_

Ever notice that it seems NT's are forever wanting for you to do or be something different?

I have never ever known an Aspie to be so inclined.

I just simply wish to be let be.

In my case, I think it's an emotional regulation or expression issue.

Just because I'm sometimes emotionally clumsy doesn't mean that I don't care or sympathise.

I've seen this emotional clumsiness in others. It doesn't make them bad people: they did care. They just had difficulty expressing this caring in a skilled or controlled manner sometimes. They stumbled through social situations a lot but were very nice people.

Emotional regulation can be improved with practiced, but when you're unsure of exactly how to go about expressing things or are socially confused, it's hard.

I have been struggling with the concept of empathy and lack there of associated with Aspergers.

Sympathy and being caring towards people is not an issue, but the emotion for me is not as intense as others I see during the process.

After a long period of self annalysing and talking with my psychologist I believe I understand my problem with lacking empathy. Why people believe it is a problem or something terrible surprises me. I have little understanding of peoples feellings or emotions unless I have experienced a similar incident.

Hopefully this will clarify my perception of self lacking of empathy. Since I have never been bullied, physically vulnerable, sexually assaulted or lost anyone I truly cared for my emotions are confused and stagnant. I realise the act is wrong and it causes the person distress, but I cannot feel or imagine their pain/feelings. At one time when I was working as a Police Officer I attended a sudden infant death and I was not emotionally affected. I sympathised with the parents, but was confused by the fathers over emotions, 'punching the walls' and appearing very angry. The mother of the child repelled the ambulance officers attempts to sit in the vehicle and hold the child. It annoyed me how persistant they were for her to hold the deceased child. I asked them to leave her alone and they explained the reasons behind this process.

Because I lack empathy does not mean I lack feelings/emotions and do not sympathise or care for others experiencing trauma. Not sure whether I'm confused or I lack processing strong/intense emotions because I personally have not experienced any. I can cry like a baby watching TV/Movies at times, but socially it just does not happen.

My emotional heart is the equivalent of a 3D mesh of a real heart. And my anti-aliasing technology is very poor. The more you zoom in, the closer you get, the more the sharp polygon edges appear and poke you. As it vibrates (beats) in it's own way, those rough artificial edges will shred our close friendship or your love.


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see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygon_mesh

Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives.


I admit I struggle with it but not in the way you might think. When people do good things for one another I don't lack empathy. I can understand that. It makes sense to me. They do this for the good of their community, the overall health of the people that comprise their community.

To me, it makes perfect sense. Everyone should have access to the same services.

I can tell when people are distressed and know what makes them this way. I know what hurts people's feelings.
What I have trouble with is empathizing with certain actions and feelings of others.

Some of us have read posts about criminals and understanding their minds and why they do what they do. Some people have an intense need to know. Instead of wanting to know, I think: "I'm worse off than that person and I don't do what they do. I hope they throw them in jail and throw away the key."

There are times I do lack empathy but it isn't like people think when they read or hear "lacking empathy". People tend to not get a very flattering picture when they read something like that. They think we are these crazed sadistic monsters who don't understand when we are hurting others but this couldn't be further from the truth.

I am more sensitive to other's troubles than some. When people can't find work no matter how hard they try, and don't have access to health care, I am loaded with understanding and compassion for anyone going thru that and I can't understand why anyone would want to deny a living thing with basic health care.

I think our attitude toward life, in general, is disgusting. It's something we should all feel ashamed of. If you look at society and our attitudes toward the most vulnerable members, it tells you something about our values and priorities, as a species. It's not a pretty picture.